SR22T vs G36, Both fully loaded and latest model.

[NoHeat]

Cirrus bashing yet again.

 

[MDeitch1976]

I do not have a problem with the Cirrus at all. I would like to fly one. I have a problem with people who own them, and believe this makes them a higher class human of the world.

 

[N747JB]

I do not have a problem with the Cirrus at all. I would like to fly one. I have a problem with people who own them, and believe this makes them a higher class human of the world.

I bet most of these people that you are talking about acted the same way before they bought their Cirrus. I've got a friend that owns an SR22 GTS turbo, that he bought new 3 years ago. He is a bit of an airplane snob, BUT he flies the smallest plane of his friends, so he keeps it pretty low profile around them.

 

[cirrusmx]

I bet most of these people that you are talking about acted the same way before they bought their Cirrus. I've got a friend that owns an SR22 GTS turbo, that he bought new 3 years ago. He is a bit of an airplane snob, BUT he flies the smallest plane of his friends, so he keeps it pretty low profile around them.

its all relative. A cirrus compared to a small cessna, it's somewhat a high end airplane. A cirrus compared to big iron seems like a plastic spam can.

Character and attitude is what makes or breaks a person, not the airplane he/she flies.

 

[wabower]

How do you know who has flown the plane?

I note the obvious negativity towards Cirri and those who fly them seem to come from those who haven't given the airplane a chance.

 

[jmp470]

The root of the problem is that we as pilots don't respect each other and bond together. Jet's pilots snub lower class pilots. Turbines bash lower class pilots.... Cirrus bash other... etc... and people that can only afford a C150 bash those who fly LSA's. LSA pilots bash Ultra-light pilots... And all of the above bash Experimental A/C.... etc....

What we need to do is respect each other regardless of what we fly and come together as a community before our community is taken from us.

 

[spiderweb]

How do you know who has flown the plane?

How do you and others know the personality of every person who flies one?

 

[spiderweb]

The root of the problem is that we as pilots don't respect each other and bond together. Jet's pilots snub lower class pilots. Turbines bash lower class pilots.... Cirrus bash other... etc... and people that can only afford a C150 bash those who fly LSA's. LSA pilots bash Ultra-light pilots... And all of the above bash Experimental A/C.... etc....

What we need to do is respect each other regardless of what we fly and come together as a community before our community is taken from us.

I wasn't bashing anyone. People in this thread are, however, bashing Cirri and Cirrus pilots.

People used to bash Bonanza pilots, ironically.

 

[jmp470]

I know.... but let them bash.... you cannot change them or their opinions... Some pilots remind me of old bitter men... they sit around and wonder why no one wants to be a pilot and they blame everything on everyone else.... So, let them bash while we reshape GA....

 

[weilke]

The root of the problem is that we as pilots don't respect each other and bond together. Jet's pilots snub lower class pilots. Turbines bash lower class pilots.... Cirrus bash other... etc... and people that can only afford a C150 bash those who fly LSA's. LSA pilots bash Ultra-light pilots... And all of the above bash Experimental A/C.... etc....

I have noticed that this behaviour is for the most part limited to the online world.

 

[wabower]

Especially those with three kids.

Flew both for a radiology hospital...Bonanza all the way. this has been beat to death on BT lots of Cirrus guys end up in a Bo.

 

[wabower]

Not necessarily. In many parts of the country turbos offer very little in terms of performance. My turbo MX costs for 19 years and many thousand hours were negligible, but I switched to NA and wouldn't dream of buying another turbo, and in fact rule out planes that have them.

once you go turbo you dont want to go back. I sometimes get to fly an sr22 and it sucks balls compared to the sr22t.

 

[wabower]

And some remind me of young big-mouth punks who think they have all the answers but don't understand any of the questions. Guess it just depends on which table at which you find a chair at airport coffee shop.

I know.... but let them bash.... you cannot change them or their opinions... Some pilots remind me of old bitter men... they sit around and wonder why no one wants to be a pilot and they blame everything on everyone else.... So, let them bash while we reshape GA....

 

[jmp470]

And some remind me of young big-mouth punks who think they have all the answers but don't understand any of the questions. Guess it just depends on which table at which you find a chair at airport coffee shop.

Way off topic:

Absolutely, evolution of one's experiences is what makes the world go around. But obviously the old tried and true just isn't working with keeping aviation relevant to today's youth... so who is the failure.. the youth or the old grumpy bastards? Most will blame the invention of this or that... or this or that gov't agency... but the truth is.... it's the current pilot population that is at fault..... The question is how do we change it... simple... stop the infighting, embrass all of GA and spread the word.... I don't have to like you, nor you I... but we must come together if GA is to survive...

 

[weilke]

And some remind me of young big-mouth punks who think they have all the answers but don't understand any of the questions. Guess it just depends on which table at which you find a chair at airport coffee shop.

I know.... but let them bash.... you cannot change them or their opinions... Some pilots remind me of old bitter men... they sit around and wonder why no one wants to be a pilot and they blame everything on everyone else.... So, let them bash while we reshape GA....

The one thing the grumpy old guys have on their side is the fact that they somehow managed to stay alive while they watched generations of loudmouths kill themselves in Bonanzas, 210s, Malibus and Cirri.

 

[DavidWhite]

Way off topic:

Absolutely, evolution of one's experiences is what makes the world go around. But obviously the old tried and true just isn't working with keeping aviation relevant to today's youth... so who is the failure.. the youth or the old grumpy bastards? Most will blame the invention of this or that... or this or that gov't agency... but the truth is.... it's the current pilot population that is at fault..... The question is how do we change it... simple... stop the infighting, embrass all of GA and spread the word.... I don't have to like you, nor you I... but we must come together if GA is to survive...

There isn't any romance to flying anymore - at least not to the general populace. Unless a young person gets bit by the flying bug and have very awesome parents or work really hard flying isn't a realistic goal. I don't think there are many people with $10,000 sitting around (especially young folks) to do something with. I've taken LOTS of people my age for a ride, and most of them would like to learn to fly, but they just don't have the monies. Usually the conversation goes something like this - "Wow! That was really cool, it sure does give you a sense of perspective! Say, how much does it usually cost to learn to fly planes?" And it sucks watching someone go from a big booming grin to a frown when you tell them the truth. It's too damn expensive, blame it on whatever you want but until it gets more financially reasonable nothing is going to change.

 

[denverpilot]

People have not lost the passion for flight, but the aviation business has lost the will to find ways to make it affordable to as many people as possible.

 

[wabower]

I think you're trying to rewrite history to fit your own misperceptions. Since you weren't there and have no notion of what really happened, I'll fill in some of the blanks.

The people at the airport were no different 40-50 years ago. Some were friendly, some weren't. Some were nice people who could be more friendly and cordial at some times than others. I was one of them. I used the plane for business 3-4 days per week. When clear of the runway after landing, I landed I called the fuel truck on unicom and met him at the hangar. We would chat while he fueled the plane and I unpacked and cleaned up for the next trip, but within 15 minutes the hangar would be locked and I would be headed home or to a kids event or to the club.

Weekends were different. A gaggle of pilots would show up at most of the airports and head off to various places for breakfast like they do now. Owners would sit in lawn chairs or ratty old hangar furniture (man caves hadn't been invented yet) and talk for hours, and anybody who came by was welcome to look at the plane, join the group, have a beer or whatever. If anyone asked about flying, a ride-along would be arranged.

Flying was expensive. I can't name another HS classmate or friend who became a pilot, mostly because of the cost. I worked through college summers to pay for flying lessons, but needed four years to complete PPL training.

I'm based at the same kind of airport now, and nothing has changed that is controlled by the pilots and owners. With $7 fuel prices (that are established by the oil companies rather than the old guys at the airport) and an aging pilot population, the amount of recreational flying has dropped, but that's no different than many other high-end leisure activities. Boating, RV travel and many other activities have been similarly affected.

The physical access to the hangars has been reduced, but the old-guy plane owners didn't build the fences or ask for them. As a guy with hundred-k + or so sitting in a hangarI don't mind a little extra security during the times nobody is around, but also think the current policy is a bit over the top but unlikely to go away due to GA's ongoing and potentially devastating threat to national security. :wink2:

A Cessna dealer and a Cirrus service center are both located on my taxiway, along with a large hangar complex that houses many different makes and models. We all have our opinions about which planes we like and dislike, and it's common to hear them expressed when a plane taxis by. Some of us base our opinions on having owned,flown and observed almost every type on the field for many years, others don't.

If pilots were rated by the number of people they have helped get started in aviation, I would be in the top group. Of those people that worked their way through their ratings and became airplane owners, I don't know of a single one that is still active in aviation.

Most of them still like to talk to me about flying and miss their days at the airport, but other priorities caused them to hang up their headsets. If you come over here suggesting that is somehow my fault, you can expect to get smacked over the head with mine.

Way off topic:

Absolutely, evolution of one's experiences is what makes the world go around. But obviously the old tried and true just isn't working with keeping aviation relevant to today's youth... so who is the failure.. the youth or the old grumpy bastards? Most will blame the invention of this or that... or this or that gov't agency... but the truth is.... it's the current pilot population that is at fault..... The question is how do we change it... simple... stop the infighting, embrass all of GA and spread the word.... I don't have to like you, nor you I... but we must come together if GA is to survive...

 

[Ted]

If you want a turbo on the G36, Tornado Alley Turbo will help you out there. I disagree with their prescribed operating philosophy (full power all the time), but the turbo kit they provide is top notch. Wayne is correct on the limited use for some, all depends on your location.

I've flown an SR22T and an A36. Admittedly, the SR22 has a nicer interior in the front two seats. The door on either side is a plus, and it feels a bit wider to me. Both of them fly nicely. I don't mind the side stick, but I think that the Lancair side stick is better implemented than the Cirrus. To me, that's pretty much a non-issue. They both fly like airplanes. My personal preference goes towards bendy legs over fixed gear. I don't like having the fixed gear out there to collect ice in the winter, and the Bonanza's gear is much more rugged than the Cirrus, which I consider to be a big plus. Plus, out of my 2,000 hours, about 1800 of them are complex. So it's just what I know.

Which one would I buy? The Bonanza. I'd be more interested in the Cirrus if it had retractable gear (even if that didn't actually gain you much on speed and added weight) and had a separate control for the prop.

 

[Jaybird180]

If you want a turbo on the G36, Tornado Alley Turbo will help you out there. I disagree with their prescribed operating philosophy (full power all the time), but the turbo kit they provide is top notch. Wayne is correct on the limited use for some, all depends on your location.

I've flown an SR22T and an A36. Admittedly, the SR22 has a nicer interior in the front two seats. The door on either side is a plus, and it feels a bit wider to me. Both of them fly nicely. I don't mind the side stick, but I think that the Lancair side stick is better implemented than the Cirrus. To me, that's pretty much a non-issue. They both fly like airplanes. My personal preference goes towards bendy legs over fixed gear. I don't like having the fixed gear out there to collect ice in the winter, and the Bonanza's gear is much more rugged than the Cirrus, which I consider to be a big plus. Plus, out of my 2,000 hours, about 1800 of them are complex. So it's just what I know.

Which one would I buy? The Bonanza. I'd be more interested in the Cirrus if it had retractable gear (even if that didn't actually gain you much on speed and added weight) and had a separate control for the prop.

Theres an STC available to give you a blue knob on the Cirrus, no RG though.

 

[Kelvin]

I just went through this conumdrum looking an "upgrade" to my 182T. (Hard to upgrade such a honest all aroudn aircraft, y poucan change it, go faster, higher and haul more if yopu consider those upgrades) I was floorboarded at the very low UL of the G36. I was impressed with the capability of the A36TC/TN and B36TC/TN. They are worlds apart in the UL.

A Cirrus is a Cirrus. Great planes with their place on the flight line, for sure. Getting 5 people is a cabin was one huge deciding factor for me.

I am not sure if depreciation of an airframe would factor into the OP's equation, but if it does, do your research carefully. The Cirrus' seem to depreciate at what I consider an alarming rate. My two new Cessnas were flown for 300 and 800+ hour respectively over 6 years and I took less that 50K *combined* depreciation on BOTH of them...I am not so sure that the Matrix I own will fare anywhere near as well....A Bo, maybe, a Cirrus...no way Jose.

 

[jonnyjetprop]

I'd take either one myself, if you twisted my wrist.

 

[cirrusmx]

the older bos have a reasonable payload and are almost perfect. the only thing that really bugs me is the clumsy and crappy design of the yokes. that huge metal bar is pretty ugly and for several hundred thousands you would expect at least a more aesthetically pleasing and intuitive design. i just can figure out a good reason to set up the controls like that. the older barons also have the same issue.


but then again. you pitch in 400,000 dollars for a brand new spam can and you get ubberly crappy flimsy doors on an airplane that is only good to fly around the local area.

 

[Ted]

Staring with the 84 model, Beechcraft replaced the T-bar/throwover yoke design with a conventional dual-yoke setup. Much better.

I never liked flying tee T-bar/throwover - always felt that it blocked a lot of the controls I wanted access to.

 

[wabower]

I loved it because reading the paper was much easier with the yoke on the other side.

Staring with the 84 model, Beechcraft replaced the T-bar/throwover yoke design with a conventional dual-yoke setup. Much better.

I never liked flying tee T-bar/throwover - always felt that it blocked a lot of the controls I wanted access to.

 

[Ted]

I loved it because reading the paper was much easier with the yoke on the other side.

I've heard similar sentiments. If I had to live with it as a personal plane, I'm sure it would be different than my typical flying exposure, which is some form of instruction or two-pilot setup. With a wife who's a better pilot than me, I can't see wanting a single yoke.

 

[weilke]

the older bos have a reasonable payload and are almost perfect. the only thing that really bugs me is the clumsy and crappy design of the yokes. that huge metal bar is pretty ugly and for several hundred thousands you would expect at least a more aesthetically pleasing and intuitive design. i just can figure out a good reason to set up the controls like that. the older barons also have the same issue.

How many pilots have to fly your average personal transportation plane at the same time ? The throw-over yoke is great as it makes it easier to get in and out of the pilot seat and lessens the risk of a right seat passenger interfering with the controls. In some of those older Bos, you can fold the rudder pedals down in addition making that right seat entirely 'inert'.

The plane was designed in 1947 and many of the basic concepts have endured since (most of the actual components however have changed). Few other aircraft designs have been in production for over 50 years, they must have done something right.

What is more of an issue imnho is how long Beech held on to 'their way' of arranging the power levers and gear/flap controls even after other manufacturers had sort of agreed on a standard way of doing this.

 

[Tony_Scarpelli]

I'd go with a Matrix or possibly the pressurized version.

Between reduced useful loads and prices, I really can't see a situation where I would buy new plane. Not even if I won the 500 million dollar lottery.

I'd look for about a 1984 A36 or TC36 and do a firewall forward with I0550, TAT add-on, wing tip fuel tanks so I would have upwards of 1600# useful load and near 199 knots at higher altitudes. Then add the Gpanel as well.

I think for about $300-350 I'd end up with a better than new bird.

If we are talking about spending the money we are then yes I would prefer a Turbo. But I agree with everything Wayne said about Turbos. If you are even remotely aware of fuel or maintenance costs in your flying then you probably are not going to be thrilled with the extra maintenance cost of the heat induced as well as just more parts in the Turbo.

I have a Rajay Turbo in a 62 Comanche and it is about 25-30 years old I think it was added to my plan in 79. Half the maintenance I have spent on my plain in four years of ownership have been directly related to the Turbo. Finding pin hole leaks in induction system, heat related cracks in cylinder heads, hose replacement every 5 years, Turbos and waste gates, additional oil changes over non turbo planes.

Still it is nice when you want to do some things that you might shy away from in other conditions.