SR22 overflies SFRA, pilot incapacitated

Al 16 hours ago
So they just escorted him to his death? I guess as long as he flew away from the White House it was every man for himself, huh.
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Anthony Popovich 11 hours ago
they just flew alongside the unconscious pilots' plane & watched it crash into the ocean? What kind of cold and cruel people do we have flying these military planes? Yeah, we see him. We'll just wait till he crashes then go home. If they weren't so callous, all of them, not just the F-16 pilots, they should have tried to help the stricken pilot. Maybe try to rescue him from his plane from another plane or helicopter. They should have some sort of laws to keep military pilots away from the elderly or young children.
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J. V. DZUGASHVILI 16 hours ago
Why wasn't the Cirrus Airframe Parachute System (CAPS) deployed by the F-16 pilots?
They could have easily initiated a soft water landing by the Cirrus SR22.
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J. V. DZUGASHVILI 17 hours ago
If there were two F-16s, why not deploy a net between them to catch the plane, once it ran out of fuel?
Then they return to shore and hand it off to a rescue copter
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Andrew F 16 hours ago
It is surprising that there are not nets strung between large aircraft that can sweep up smaller aircraft that have problems.
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WhiskeyBum 12 hours ago
Couldn't one of them have climbed out , and into his plane to take the controls , or at least knocked on his window to wake him up ?
They were sent up there to kill him , and they did , through doing nothing .
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Sunshine 15 hours ago
Wait, what? Didn't they build the f-16 in the 1970s? How old is our Air Force?
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chevfan_1 18 hours ago
During times like this why don't they send the f22. Much faster and more capable plane.
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H2O 4 hours ago
We have a restricted airspace over Washington D.C.? THAT is news, but considering those that supposedly work there are always ignoring the American people it just confirms that it IS another country and not part of the U.S.
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flowerc 16 hours ago
This is sure an expensive rescue and not to mention the cost of the F-16s to monitor this pilot, was he drunk, in any case there sure have been a lot of people flying small planes; having accidents a lot! These people should not have a license to fly!! there should be a new rule about getting your pilot license, it should be more hours and they should be evaluated every year!!
this is getting ridiculous!
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Kate 2 hours ago
This is why humans should not fly. If mankind was meant to fly in the sky like that we would have wings. When the old gods return they will smite down all those sinners who dare mock them.
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John 17 hours ago
So a plane flying from Wisconsin to Virginia is only require to have 1 pilot and no co-pilot? I am surprised there are not more planes falling from the sky everyday.
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Yahoo 1 hour ago
They assume he was dead, but what if he was just asleep? Too bad they don't have horns on those jets.
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boby b 16 hours ago
really nothing could have been done to save him!!! Maybe a hook or something, a parachute, or I don't know, something. I am really dead scared of small planes. There is nothing you can do if something bad happens. Maybe some adjustments like a eject seat be incorporated to them in future. convalescents to family, and fighter pilots, I guess they are already sad, so do not feel bad, it happens. Just a lesson for future.
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^I do wonder if there was some way they could have forced the plane into a descent or at least a gradual turn towards open land.

Get under it and force a wing up? Have a UH-60 in front of it with a cable to damage one of the wings? Shoot off part of the wing?

Idle speculation, but we were recently discussing Pardo's Push and dragging a plane back home on a tanker boom; so obviously we've done crazier.
 
Henning said:
10,000' is Industry Best Practice for loss of pressurization, 13,000' still requires O2 by Pt.91. 10k is what should be programmed default, and the system is capable of CFIT avoidance.
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I think the issue is one of terrain vs. O2 content in selecting the altitude. First, kudos to Cirrus. While, as an engineer. I have ideas on how to improve the system, at least there is a system. How many other GA aircraft will do an auto descent if the pilot doesn't respond?

This system is a fairly recent introduction and not on my plane. Here is what I know (or think I know) about the system. 13k' keeps you safe from most terrain while providing enough O2 to wake you up. Lower is better for O2 but at 10K' there is a lot more terrain to hit. Already, on another forum, a person is discussing how bad this is because yo could hit a mountain. In the US the odds of that are low at 13K'.

The intervals between required responses shortens with altitude. Thus pilot input is required more often as you go higher. If you have been pressing the mic button or changing display screens then the system knows that and counts that as pilot input and resets the interval timer. A pilot who is constantly interacting with the avionics (radio calls, zooming the screen etc.) will never see a message about the system needing a response.

I have tried to think of ways to improve the system which wouldn't require anything too complicated. The simplest thing I can think of is to have the system estimate flight time based on fuel remaining and to look at max terrain over that path. From there a minimum safe descent altitude can be calculated all the way down to 10K' or even 8K'. Since the planes with this feature have synthetic vision, the terrain data is already there.
 
warthog1984 said:
^I do wonder if there was some way they could have forced the plane into a descent or at least a gradual turn towards open land.

Get under it and force a wing up? Have a UH-60 in front of it with a cable to damage one of the wings? Shoot off part of the wing?

Idle speculation, but we were recently discussing Pardo's Push and dragging a plane back home on a tanker boom; so obviously we've done crazier.
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Sure, they could have forced him down, results would have been the same so I can't think of why except practice.
 
Man, there's no shortage of stupidity in this country. I can understand the public not being aware of aviation matters but come on!
 
peppy said:
I think the issue is one of terrain vs. O2 content in selecting the altitude. First, kudos to Cirrus. While, as an engineer. I have ideas on how to improve the system, at least there is a system. How many other GA aircraft will do an auto descent if the pilot doesn't respond?

This system is a fairly recent introduction and not on my plane. Here is what I know (or think I know) about the system. 13k' keeps you safe from most terrain while providing enough O2 to wake you up. Lower is better for O2 but at 10K' there is a lot more terrain to hit. Already, on another forum, a person is discussing how bad this is because yo could hit a mountain. In the US the odds of that are low at 13K'.

The intervals between required responses shortens with altitude. Thus pilot input is required more often as you go higher. If you have been pressing the mic button or changing display screens then the system knows that and counts that as pilot input and resets the interval timer. A pilot who is constantly interacting with the avionics (radio calls, zooming the screen etc.) will never see a message about the system needing a response.

I have tried to think of ways to improve the system which wouldn't require anything too complicated. The simplest thing I can think of is to have the system estimate flight time based on fuel remaining and to look at max terrain over that path. From there a minimum safe descent altitude can be calculated all the way down to 10K' or even 8K'. Since the planes with this feature have synthetic vision, the terrain data is already there.
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"Safe from terrain" does not have to be a Pre programmed altitude, it can get the real local information from the onboard database. There is no reason the system cannot be programmed to provide a 10,000' default with a 'stop' command from conflicting terrain data in the database. This is a simple function of it checking the MSA along the programmed route.
 
Henning said:
Sure, they could have forced him down, results would have been the same so I can't think of why except practice.
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Let's assume for a minute that he was out due solely to hypoxia. Force the plane into a shallow descent, he'd have 10 min or so at lower altitude before hitting the ground. Enough time for O2 levels to work their way back up?

A couple of high speed passes or other loud noises at 5000ft, pilot wakes up, pulls the chute?
 
warthog1984 said:
Let's assume for a minute that he was out due solely to hypoxia. Force the plane into a shallow descent, he'd have 10 min or so at lower altitude before hitting the ground. Enough time for O2 levels to work their way back up?

A couple of high speed passes or other loud noises at 5000ft, pilot wakes up, pulls the chute?
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I would bet they made some passes on the guy to try to wake him up. How do you force a descent on a plane that has an autopilot trying to hold altitude? Even if you manage to shoot out the engine without killing the guy, it'll fly along pulling the nose up until it stalls. I can't think of a single safe way to do it.
 
Wow - typically I lurk, not post, but the above comments actually frightened me. The scariest part is like one poster mentioned, "these people vote"....
Holy Cow....
 
Henning said:
I would bet they made some passes on the guy to try to wake him up. How do you force a descent on a plane that has an autopilot trying to hold altitude? Even if you manage to shoot out the engine without killing the guy, it'll fly along pulling the nose up until it stalls. I can't think of a single safe way to do it.
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So let's say they shoot off a wing or the engine and the plane stalls or spins.

It has what, a 1000fpm descent rate in a spin? All you'd need would be enough time at lower altitudes to get sufficient O2 into the pilots brain so that he could wake up enough to pop the chute.

Again, idle speculation from the thought that we've done stuff more insane and had it work.
 
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We are all speculating and the assumption is that he was alive and passed out. In reality, he very well could have been dead for quite a while before he ran out of gas. :dunno:
For those that don't fly with newer autopilots like the Cirrus, they normally have altitude pre-select as well as altitude hold. So, you dial in the selected altitude and start the decent or ascent and it will level off and hold the selected altitude until you change it. Or it runs out of gas and then it will try to hold the altitude until the speed decays.
 
warthog1984 said:
So let's say they shoot off a wing or the engine and the plane stalls or spins.

It has what, a 1000fpm descent rate in a spin? All you'd need would be enough time at lower altitudes to get sufficient O2 into the pilots brain so that he could wake up enough to pop the chute.

Again, idle speculation from the thought that we've done stuff more insane and had it work.
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When you shoot half a wing off, the plane isn't going into a nice slow descent spin. I don't think the 20mm Vulcan shoots a tight enough pattern to be able to shoot off half a wing without exploding the fuel tank.
 
Henning said:
When you shoot half a wing off, the plane isn't going into a nice slow descent spin. I don't think the 20mm Vulcan shoots a tight enough pattern to be able to shoot off half a wing without exploding the fuel tank.
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Well then they should just use their lasers! Everyone knows they have them!

:rofl::mad::rofl:
 
They should have gotten a 12 year old internet hacker to hack into the Cirrus's system, fly the plane over a field and remotely pulled the chute!!

Could have easily been done. Why is our government so cruel!?? It's Obama's fault!
 
Dav8or said:
They should have gotten a 12 year old internet hacker to hack into the Cirrus's system, fly the plane over a field and remotely pulled the chute!!

Could have easily been done. Why is our government so cruel!?? It's Obama's fault!
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I think there's a small hole in your plan. If our 12 year old hacker got the Cirrus under his control, why would we need to pull the chute at all? It's all a conspiracy to get insurance money from the crash and to undermine Cirrus by crashing their planes. Naturally an inside job.
 
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Some folks are taking this way too seriously.:yes:

I'm just gaming out-of-the-box scenarios based on conventional measures not working and the fact that at a certain point, trying crazy ideas probably isn't going to make the situation worse.
 
warthog1984 said:
Some folks are taking this way too seriously.:yes:

I'm just gaming out-of-the-box scenarios based on conventional measures not working and the fact that at a certain point, trying crazy ideas probably isn't going to make the situation worse.
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I dunno what to do about the situation tbh. I guess if the guy is gone, the ocean isnt too bad. Over land, moving or damaging the plane would probably end up making it a lot more uncertain where it'll end up, which puts a lot of people at risk. While the ocean isn't forgiving of planes coming in contact with it, I think that the ground or hitting a mountain or building would be worse. My guess is it would only really increase casualties for an already sad accident. And get the military in trouble for doing it. Sucks all the way around.

N747JB said:
They live among us, and they vote!:eek::eek:
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Terry L in KY said:
Wow - typically I lurk, not post, but the above comments actually frightened me. The scariest part is like one poster mentioned, "these people vote"....
Holy Cow....
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Velocity173 said:
Man, there's no shortage of stupidity in this country. I can understand the public not being aware of aviation matters but come on!
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Velocity173 said:
Man, there's no shortage of stupidity in this country. I can understand the public not being aware of aviation matters but come on!
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Amen to that!

You should read some of the comments by the uninformed on the news sites. Then you'll understand how the jerks in DC get reelected.
 
Norman said:
Amen to that!

You should read some of the comments by the uninformed on the news sites. Then you'll understand how the jerks in DC get reelected.
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The worst part is every one of those comments is from a Yahoo! story about the incident I was reading.

http://news.yahoo.com/f-16s-dispatched-unresponsive-pilot-small-plane-near-233338046.html

I had to stop myself, and filter out all of the people saying that the F-16s could catch this plane but not a bunch of airliners and that 9/11 was an inside job and on and on...
 
Henning said:
"Safe from terrain" does not have to be a Pre programmed altitude, it can get the real local information from the onboard database. There is no reason the system cannot be programmed to provide a 10,000' default with a 'stop' command from conflicting terrain data in the database. This is a simple function of it checking the MSA along the programmed route.
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How is this substantially different form what I suggested? You can go a long way after the descent so you need to be searching over a wide area. Restricting it to the flight path, as I suggested will yield a lower altitude. Still, look at what we are doing. We are discussing a system that doesn't even exist on most planes as if Cirrus somehow mucked it up. The fact is that what Cirrus has done is better than the do nothing system on most GA planes.
 
peppy said:
How is this substantially different form what I suggested? You can go a long way after the descent so you need to be searching over a wide area. Restricting it to the flight path, as I suggested will yield a lower altitude. Still, look at what we are doing. We are discussing a system that doesn't even exist on most planes as if Cirrus somehow mucked it up. The fact is that what Cirrus has done is better than the do nothing system on most GA planes.
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Well, that's the process of progress, you make mistakes, you find them, you fix them. If you don't discuss what went wrong, how do you figure out how to do it right?
 
flyingron said:
Maybe airworthiness certificate, the type certificates for the SR20/22/22T haven't changed in over a year.
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Your right, it was late when I posted this ;)
 
How long did it take the airplane to descend before the crash. Should be able to find it,the chase plane should have co-ordinates,pilot may have suffered a heart attack.
 
It's not that they can't find where it went down. The fighters followed all the way. But when it sinks, it can drift anywhere. And they have no found it yet.
 
denverpilot said:
The chemtrail tank leaked and killed him.
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Check and secure chemtrail tank should be like #3 or #4 on the preflight, I guess he was a just a sloppy pilot after all :rolleyes2:

I went back to article just now and sorted by newest. Seriously where do these people come from?

Natural 43 minutes ago
most likely suicide bomber that failed or just an idiot.
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Fogleg Horndog 5 hours ago
This was a remotely piloted plane with a dead guy in the seat. This is a
test run by ISIS.
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ironhead 13 hours ago
the f 16s out of Andrews were carrying to heavy of an secret missle to stay over the dead guys crash site,had to return =low fuel heavy ammo!!!
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michael 18 hours ago
It is sad he did not hit the white house but maybe next time, with some luck are beloved leader will slip on a banana peal that the zoo keepers in the white house will forget to pick up. When a chimp dies in office do you have chimp mourners or will the secret service wear mnokey suits, so many choices.
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Luwanda 18 hours ago
Obviously the plane driver was smoking weed and fallen asleep. Look I love smoking but there a time and a place. Very sad.
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roger 19 hours ago
It's time to ban all small civilian aricraft. Thankfully this one crashed into the ocean and not into the Kennedy estate mansion at Martha's Vineyard
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John 22 hours ago
Puddle jumper. what a waste of life. just looking at these things (and I just did) should tell an intelligent person that they are flying coffins. no room for error. looked what happened to Payne Stewart, et al., in far more powerful and modern planes. Don't do it! Waukesha to Manassas - in that thing? Are you kidding me? Better off in a 70 year-old UNMODIFIED P-51 (sans .50 calibers).
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maxd 22 hours ago
This incident reeks of a shootdown with a cover story to prevent a violent backlash on the Musim communities. The shift supervisor with the DC TAC would have filed an incursion report with the FAA and the media would have access to it. No incursion report as of yet. Both area airports should have a paint on the airplane violating the airspace. Not a peep from anyone.
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You guys are hilarious. If you lived and worked in the hospitality industry, as I do, you certainly would not be surprised or horrified by those comments.

These people are the MAJORITY, not the exception. You guys have to come out of the rarified atmosphere of aviation, where everyone is beautiful and above average, more often.
 
mjburian said:
Just heard on the news that it took off from a local airport (didn't click the FlightAware link earlier) and crashed into the Atlantic Ocean. I know mattg used to fly out of there and I think steingar and nddons still do. Anybody know anything about this?

I know of an SR-20 on the field (http://milwaukee.craigslist.org/for/4572487680.html) but not an SR-22 based there.
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The flight departed out of my home airport, KUES, but when I flew yesterday, no one knew him. I'll see more airport folks on Wednesday and see what they know.
 
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