Sportsman sequence

Diana

Diana

Final Approach
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Feb 21, 2005
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Diana
Can it really be done in a Citabria? Ken? If you can do it, then I can do it without spades?
 
Diana said:
Can it really be done in a Citabria? Ken? If you can do it, then I can do it without spades?
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Diana, did you read the article in Sport Aerobatics?! It looks like fun. I have to say, I never heard of the goldfish.....
 
Toby said:
Diana, did you read the article in Sport Aerobatics?! It looks like fun. I have to say, I never heard of the goldfish.....
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Mine hasn't come yet, dang it.

I'm not sure what a goldfish is. Maybe somebody here will explain it? I want to do one!
 
It was designed to be able to be done in something like a Citabria, even a Cub. However, whether you or I can do it is just a matter of practice.

I have not gotten through the whole thing yet. My aerobatics are very rusty and I simply haven't had the time recently to devote much to it.

As for the goldfish, it is a 3/4 loop that starts on a 45-degree inverted climb and ends on a 45-degree upright climb. In the sportsman sequence, it's followed by a split-S. So in something like a Citabria, you need to get enough speed in the downward portion of the loop to make a decent showing of the 45-degree climb line. The bottom of your loop requires enough pull to keep max energy for the climb, but not so much pull as to scrub off energy. Finish the climb at an airspeed that allows the split-S entry.

I haven't gotten this far in the sequence. I'm still piecing it together.
 
The goldfish is figure 5 in this year's sequence. I think there's a possibility that it is put in the sequence as a bit of "there, take that" for those flying higher performance airplanes. The additional 45 degrees of 4 or 5 g pull to get to the up line hurts my old body.

Chip
 
Hey Chip,
Could you explain the diagram on your attached image figure 5?
Thanks.
 
Greg,

The maneuver starts at the dot and ends at the bar, so in this case it starts at the bottom right and ends at the top right. The solid lines represent segments of flight with positive g loading, the red dashed lines represent negative g loading.

The maneuver starts at the dot with straight and level upright flight. Then, pull up to a 45 degree climb, roll the airplane 180 degrees to the inverted while remaining on the climbing 45 degree line. Then pull the airplane through the top and backside of the loop (positive g's again) and continue pulling past straight and level to an upright 45 degree climb. Push to straight and level at the top.


Information about Aresti figures (originally developed by Spanish aerobatic pilot José Louis Aresti) can be found at:

IAC Web Site

RC Aresti PDF

Chip
 
Very cool! Thanks for the explanation and the links!
 
gibbons said:
The additional 45 degrees of 4 or 5 g pull to get to the up line hurts my old body.

Chip
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If 5 G's is the max for my airplane, am I going to have to get close to the max to do it in the Citabria?
 
Diana said:
If 5 G's is the max for my airplane, am I going to have to get close to the max to do it in the Citabria?
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Diana,

Not at all. I think you pull about 3 g's through a loop (as I remember it). Whatever you pull through the loop is about what you'll continue to pull to the 45 line.

Here's a quote from the April, 2004 Sport Aerobatics article by Rob Dorsey about the goldfish in that sequence:

"... continue the pull until you are again 45 degrees nose-up and then fly the climbing line. This is where the pilots of the higher performance airplanes will take a licking. They will gain far more airspeed in the downward loop, and the g will be both of higher magnitude and of longer duration than the g experienced by the lower performance airplane driver."

Chip
 
gibbons said:
It came via U.S. Mail...... about a year ago :)

Chip
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Ah, silly me! Now I see the 2004 part. Funny how Rob says basically the same thing ... in the April 2005 issue. Cripes.
 
Ken Ibold said:
Ah, silly me! Now I see the 2004 part. Funny how Rob says basically the same thing ... in the April 2005 issue. Cripes.
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Well, it IS the same maneuver. I guess how it's flown hasn't changed in 12 months. :)

It wouldn't bother me if he just lifted last year's comments about the maneuver. What I enjoy about Rob's articles is his input on flying one maneuver to prepare for the next, the altitude and wind considerations, etc. I generally go to Alan Cassidy's book for more detail on how to fly the specific maneuver.

Chip
 
gibbons said:
Diana,

Not at all. I think you pull about 3 g's through a loop (as I remember it). Whatever you pull through the loop is about what you'll continue to pull to the 45 line.
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I try for 3.5, but a lot of times it's 3 (especially if I haven't done them in a while) The other day it was 4 G's and I'm not sure what I did that time.


gibbons said:
Here's a quote from the April, 2004 Sport Aerobatics article by Rob Dorsey about the goldfish in that sequence:

"... continue the pull until you are again 45 degrees nose-up and then fly the climbing line. This is where the pilots of the higher performance airplanes will take a licking. They will gain far more airspeed in the downward loop, and the g will be both of higher magnitude and of longer duration than the g experienced by the lower performance airplane driver."

Chip
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Oh, OK, that makes sense. Thanks Chip.

Wonder if I can order back copies of Sport Aerobatics?
 
Diana said:
Wonder if I can order back copies of Sport Aerobatics?
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I've got a few years worth you can have next time you come down. I'm getting ready to throw out a bunch of magazines. I have almost all of the AOPA magazines dating back to 1981. Flying dating back to about 1985. Why do I keep all of this?

Chip
 
gibbons said:
I've got a few years worth you can have next time you come down.
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Yes, I'd like to have them, thanks!


gibbons said:
I have almost all of the AOPA magazines dating back to 1981. Flying dating back to about 1985. Why do I keep all of this?
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I don't know, can anybody throw away their flying magazines? Tom had so many flying magazines stored away in the attic of this 150 year-old farmhouse that the ceiling was starting to sag. We had to finally prop the ceiling up with jacks until we could get them out of the attic. :)
 
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Steve, what is that aircraft on the deck? Doesn't look familiar.
 
Diana said:
Yes, I'd like to have them, thanks!
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And hang onto them until I get there, so I can look through them when I visit you!
I don't know, can any body throw away their flying magazines?
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I just donated a year and half's worth of Flight Training to my flight school, so the students can borrow them.
 
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