Spin Training Poll

[BartY]

I learned the importance of coordinated stalls VERY early in my pilot training. On my 3rd lesson, my instructor was having me practice stalls and I let a wing droop just a tad on a couple of occasions. On the last one, the left wing went down a little more than normal, and he nudges (that's an understatement!) the left rudder pedal to put the 150 into a spin. After we did a couple of rotations, he told me how to break the spin, which I did and viola...I was back to straight and level.

It helped me considerably when it came time for my checkride. On one of the stalls I demonstrated, I was a little uncoordinated and was able to recognize the potential for a spin. I smartly recovered and promptly demonstrated another power on stall, this time staying coordinated. Had I not been introduced to spins as I was, I probably would have ended up failing that portion of the ride and had to come back another day. Instead, after landing I was greeted with my new pilot's certificate!

 

[Saville]

Here's a poll on spin training.

Please share your thoughts on your experience, or why you haven't yet!

I got myself some spin training while obtaining my PPL. I was visitng a buddy in Ohio who is an ex Navy/AF fighter pilot (F-4's, a little F-14, F-16's) and I asked him to give me some spin instruction in a C-152. So he did. I had a GREAT time. He even filmed it with my el cheapo digital camera (can also take short movies).

I had this notion that a spin is something you can find yourself in, and so therefore I should know how to get out of it.

Since then I've done a bunch more both in a C-152 as well as a Super Decathlon. In the Super D I was taught the competition style "non-forced entry" spin and spins to the right. Great fun.

 

[Dan Thomas]

Spin training is required for the private here in Canada. Good fun after you get used to it. I didn't even get sick though I did look a little pale after a session with six practice spins in a Cherokee.

The PPL is required to see it during training. The Commercial student has to perform it on the checkride.
We do spin training daily. Never had any problems, except once when a student and instructor got a 150 into a spin and it didn't want to recover after five turns. Those airplanes tend to flatten out, and will require VERY sharp full-forward elevator to break the stall, just as the POH says. They got it out when they did that.
No 150s to spin anymore, just 172s (lazy spinners) and Citabrias (quite willing). When I did taildragger checkouts I would have trouble convincing the trike pilots that they needed to coordinate the Citabria, especially near the ground like in the base-to-final turn, with absolutely no skidding. They'd sort of try, and then we'd go up high and do a couple of gliding turns and get it skidding; after that they paid attention in the base-to-final turn, believe me. Spin training is well worth the time and effort, is safe if done properly, and an educated pilot is a safer pilot.


Dan
________
buy herbalaire vaporizer

 

[Dan Thomas]

Hmm matt, I didn't know the 172 was approved for spins in NORMAL category GG/Wight limits

They're still in the Utility category as long as they're under 2000 lb, so those big guys would have less fuel aboard, and without anyone in the back seats the CG'll be forward enough to qualify, too.

Dan
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MR175

 

[ron22]

Im in the missing "never done a spin, but would love to get that training" choice.
I keep meaning to do some but it just never seems to happen.
I did some aerobatics in a North American T-6 at Warbird Adventures in FL. There was a place card stating Spin not approved in this aircraft. (not sure of exact wording)
Im currently renting an aerobatic Musketeer. I will have to check it out and see if they offer spin training. To be honest I have not thought about spin training lately until I saw this post.

 

[gprellwitz]

The PPL is required to see it during training.

Do you have a cite for that? I was unaware of that, though they must certainly receive spin awareness training.

 

[gprellwitz]

They're still in the Utility category as long as they're under 2000 lb, so those big guys would have less fuel aboard, and without anyone in the back seats the CG'll be forward enough to qualify, too.

Dan

I think Pete's comment was related to the fact that Matt said they had 470 lbs of student/instructor aboard. At least in the 172's I have available (R and S models), that gives 2153 pounds with ZERO fuel.

See http://www.pilotsofamerica.com/forum/showpost.php?p=304831&postcount=68 for the numbers on these planes.

 

[Dan Thomas]

Do you have a cite for that? I was unaware of that, though they must certainly receive spin awareness training.

The Lesson that includes it:
http://www.tc.gc.ca/civilaviation/general/Flttrain/planes/Pubs/TP975/PartII/Ex13.htm

The PPL flight test exercises (note the lack of a spin):
http://www.tc.gc.ca/civilaviation/general/Flttrain/planes/Pubs/TP13723/menu.htm


The CPL flight test exercises (note Exercise 13): http://www.tc.gc.ca/civilaviation/general/Flttrain/planes/Pubs/TP13462/menu.htm

Dan
________
herbal vaporizers

 

[gprellwitz]

The Lesson that includes it:
http://www.tc.gc.ca/civilaviation/general/Flttrain/planes/Pubs/TP975/PartII/Ex13.htm

The PPL flight test exercises (note the lack of a spin):
http://www.tc.gc.ca/civilaviation/general/Flttrain/planes/Pubs/TP13723/menu.htm


The CPL flight test exercises (note Exercise 13): http://www.tc.gc.ca/civilaviation/general/Flttrain/planes/Pubs/TP13462/menu.htm

Dan

Ah. Transport Canada. I really like that they have the syllabus available online! That said, I don't see a requirement for actually demonstrating the spin, and the motivation in the syllabus is "As required.'

Neither Canada nor the US apparently require a spin for certification at the Private level, and the US doesn't require it at the Commercial level. The US Private and Commercial PTS merely state:
D. TASK: SPIN AWARENESS
REFERENCES: FAA-H-8083-3, AC 61-67; POH/AFM.
Objective. To determine that the applicant exhibits knowledge of the
elements related to spin awareness by explaining:
1. Aerodynamic factors related to spins.
2. Flight situations where unintentional spins may occur.
3. Procedures for recovery from unintentional spins.

Note that it says "by explaining." Not saying I agree with it; just that this is what it says!

 

[Dan Thomas]

Note that it says "by explaining." Not saying I agree with it; just that this is what it says!

Explaining covers the theory, but like bungee-jumping or waterskiing or any number of other hyperactive pursuits, there's nothing like hands-on experience. We explain the spin: what causes it, what to expect, and so on, but once we've been in and out of one, the student says "Holy Mackerel!" and has much more respect for things like airspeed and coordination and load factors. And has less fear of it, since now he knows it's fixable. Nothing like experiencing the real thing.

Dan
________
Ferrari Wiki

 

[gprellwitz]

Explaining covers the theory, but like bungee-jumping or waterskiing or any number of other hyperactive pursuits, there's nothing like hands-on experience. We explain the spin: what causes it, what to expect, and so on, but once we've been in and out of one, the student says "Holy Mackerel!" and has much more respect for things like airspeed and coordination and load factors. And has less fear of it, since now he knows it's fixable. Nothing like experiencing the real thing.

Dan

Oh, I believe you and agree! I'd love to do it, as I mentioned earlier in the thread.