Spin training during primary?

[docmirror]

I like spin training for the unusual attitude, but like others have said, what's as important or more-so is recognizing when a spin is developing, the conditions, and what to do the instant you see it happening. You need to take corrective action right away to prevent, or minimize altitude loss because where things usually go bad is the base to final turn.

Incipient spin recovery is more important than the spin itself. So, learn to spin and recover, then learn what happens with asymmetrical lift of an incipient spin, and how to deal with it instantly, and correctly. You need the muscle memory to keep you out of trouble in the pattern and avoid that deadly common mistake that has taken many good pilots.

 

[MachFly]

That depends on the availability of a spin-legal plane at their training facility -- many of which don't have one.

Well yes....but you can technically apply that logic to anything in aviation.

 

[MachFly]

My instructor was old school. Navy fighter pilot/instructor during WWII. He didn't care what the FAA said. You did it his way or you went somewhere else.
He knew that some of his planes were latent killers, and he wanted everyone who flew them to have the best possible chance of surviving.
He did a good job. I'm still here.

Good man.

 

[Henning]

Can anyone point to where where the FAA says "Don't teach Pre solo spins."? Just because they don't recommend it causing themselves liability, doesn't necessarily mean they think they are bad to learn.

 

[timwinters]

Teaching abstinence against spins is appearing about as effective as teaching abstinence against pregnancy.

Nahhhh...it's more like using the rhythm method!


...just when you think it's safe to go inside...

 

[peerlesscowboy]

This is a fascination discussion. I want to thank everyone for their input. My goal is to be the best/safest pilot that I can be. This has given me much to think about. Like I said in a previous post, the plane I am training in is NOT approved for spins, so I will have to find a different plane if I pursue this. What got me thinking about it was the fact that I hate power on stalls, they scare the hell out of me to be honest. I am ok with my instructor beside me. I know that my best chance of an unintentional spin is power on stalls. At some point I will need to practice those solo and I figured that spin awareness may help my anxiety about them.

The reason that power on stalls "scare the hell out of..." you is that you know it could develop into a spin if recovery isn't executed properly and the spin is this unknown Bogeyman to you. Shine the light on the Bogeyman and he doesn't look so tough plus your fear of stalls will go away.
You'll need an instructor that's willing and eager and an airplane that's approved for intentional spins.

 

[Z06_Mir]

I did spin training in a 172 as a primary student. I did the spin training again in a citabria as a CFI student. I recommend my students do some spin training, but I am not the best person to do it with so I recommend a different CFI for that too.

 

[poadeleted20]

Well yes....but you can technically apply that logic to anything in aviation.

I disagree. When the FAA requires something, you have no choice but to spend the resources to do it, e.g., to get at least some PP training in an aircraft with a radio, electronic nav system, and at least one gyro instrument no matter what it costs or how far you have to travel. OTOH, traveling to another airport and dealing with another training provider just to get spin training is not required, and the expenditure of the resources to do that is entirely optional.

 

[poadeleted20]

Can anyone point to where where the FAA says "Don't teach Pre solo spins."? Just because they don't recommend it causing themselves liability, doesn't necessarily mean they think they are bad to learn.

The FAA doesn't say "don't teach pre-solo partial panel nonprecision instrument approaches", either. Does that mean it's bad to teach them? No, in the sense that it's not going to put them at risk, but I think it is still a bad idea since it unnecessarily prolongs training without any significant demonstrable gain in safety. Still, when you get your CFI ticket, you can make it a pre-solo requirement for your trainees if you like. Let us know how that works out.

 

[kzadora]

During my PPL training the school I was using focused strictly on the PTS. So no accelerated stalls, no falling leaf stalls and no spins. I was flying what is perhaps the most forgiving GA trainer (Diamond 40) and even when doing power-off stalls, I could be very slow on the rudder and still recover with hardly any wing drop every time, especially since I was taught to go into the stall coordinated.

But I knew I was missing something and a few power-on stalls I did with a CFI in a Skyhawk were more "interesting" than I expected, so I hired an aerobatic instructor to go through an upset recovery training.

I just finished today. It was an eye-opening experience. The first time I tried a power-off stall the plane departed into a spin Before the flight I could recite the PARE recovery steps very well, including the details such as full opposite rudder and elevator through neutral, but when actual spin happened, I just let go of the controls and asked the instructor to recover by saying something like "aaah..."

I am convinced that this training (which included, among other things, falling leaf stalls, spins and simulated wake turbulence recovery) made me a better and safer pilot. As MachFly and others have said, it is a valuable, confidence-building skill to be able to recover from a spin, but the real benefit of spin training is to become more aware of the angle of attack and yaw and be able to avoid the spin altogether, or kill it right away when it starts, through correct and decisive use of all necessary controls. I would recommend going through such training to any pilot who has the opportunity, either during PPL training or shortly after getting your license.

 

[brian]]

I know what you mean about the diamond being easy in a stall - they pretty much "mush" to the ground with some buffeting. Very clean airframes.

The Bonanza (and I'm sure the mooney) on the other hand will quickly let you know if you don't have the ball centered - yeow!