Speaking of Grammar (posts moved from mishap forum)

gdwindowpane said:
I hear it everywhere. It is horrible. I can only assume that it is being accepted in classes and not corrected. Sad to say, sign of the times.
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Accepted and in some cases lauded. There's a whole new vernacular I don't understand and am truly showing my age.
 
I will confess not having any difficulty understanding him.

Certainly more articulate than what we see typed in posts and tweets. (never mind laws and regulations...)

Loose/lose, your/you're, their/there, than/then are all things that I find more grating. (I almost typed "greating" just to mess with ya'll)
 
And please, do not get me started on "alot" "awhile" and a couple other gems that seem to have taken on a life of their own.
 
Evolve is a slippery regressive slope.
 
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nauga said:
When I die I'll try to make sure I'm surrounded by more articulate people.
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Make sure Florida Man is one of them, in case you need your belts cut with broken plexiglass. Or you really like gold chains.

Actual quote from interview: "Ohmigod Ohmigod Ohmigod!"

markup_1000006010.png

www.fox13news.com

Plane crash injures two in Hillsborough County

Two people suffered injuries after a small plane crashed in Brandon on Thursday, according to Hillsborough County Fire Rescue.
www.fox13news.com www.fox13news.com
 
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ateamer said:
Not really much to discuss on that. Pilots haven’t really come up with new ways to kill themselves for at least a hundred years. And it’s not like this one involved any external factors like ATC or other aircraft.
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So, I get that. Probably why I don't think there was a thread when yet another Space-X blew up (or underwent a rapid unscheduled disassembly). But it's under the Aviation Mishaps forum. If it was about grammar, maybe move it to Hangar Talk? Just askin'....;)
 
robin ardoin said:
Uvver cents I ben tuh thugh Evelyn Woodhead sped ridden course.....

Who remembers these old comedy albums ?
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I do! As a kid I had that album on vinyl, used to know it word for word. I still can’t believe my parents bought it for me.

Now I gotta look up “Cheborneck”…
 
Llewtrah381 said:
So, I get that. Probably why I don't think there was a thread when yet another Space-X blew up (or underwent a rapid unscheduled disassembly). But it's under the Aviation Mishaps forum. If it was about grammar, maybe move it to Hangar Talk? Just askin'....;)
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This is an aviation-based social group rather than a professional forum. It’s e-sitting around the firepit with our flying buddies.
 
ateamer said:
This is an aviation-based social group rather than a professional forum. It’s e-sitting around the firepit with our flying buddies.
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True. And while sitting around said fire pit I observed that the conversation took an unexpected direction from the start - in a situation where a guy died doing something “unusual” when flying. Nothing more.
 
robin ardoin said:
Uvver cents I ben tuh thugh Evelyn Woodhead sped ridden course.....

Who remembers these old comedy albums ?
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I'm not nearly old enough to remember this one. My uncle was a toddler when it was released and neither of my parents had been born. But it is a favorite.

 
gdwindowpane said:
I hear it everywhere. It is horrible. I can only assume that it is being accepted in classes and not corrected. Sad to say, sign of the times.
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A few years ago, I had a job grading school assignments for middle school students in California, online. The employer emphasized I was not allowed to consider spelling or grammar, just the students' ability to address the question. It was incredibly frustrating because I am a former news reporter, producer and news director and spent a lot of time editing. I did not accept any new assignments from that company. In its defense, the company was passing along the requirements from the California school district.
 
Gilbert Buettner said:
A few years ago, I had a job grading school assignments for middle school students in California, online. The employer emphasized I was not allowed to consider spelling or grammar, just the students' ability to address the question. It was incredibly frustrating because I am a former news reporter, producer and news director and spent a lot of time editing. I did not accept any new assignments from that company. In its defense, the company was passing along the requirements from the California school district.
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Grammar is one of my pet-peeves. But at my public high school I was told that being grammatically correct, speaking and writing in proper English was elitist at best and racist at worse. That seemed odd to me. When I visited the Anishinaabe cultural center I though it was neat to be able to not mangle what I was saying even if I spoke at a snail's pace. Half my family arrived in this country puhuminen suomalainen (speaking Finnish) and the other half snakker norsk (speaking Norwegian).
 
3393RP said:
Is anyone surprised that great swaths of K-12 students cannot read, write, or perform math functions to grade level?
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Like anything, I’m guessing that ignorance will eventually fall from fashion. Problem is that like the flight instructor situation right now, it’s going to be tough to find someone to teach properly.
 
Gilbert Buettner said:
A few years ago, I had a job grading school assignments for middle school students in California, online. The employer emphasized I was not allowed to consider spelling or grammar, just the students' ability to address the question. It was incredibly frustrating because I am a former news reporter, producer and news director and spent a lot of time editing. I did not accept any new assignments from that company. In its defense, the company was passing along the requirements from the California school district.
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As the spouse of a teacher, I probably pay more attention to this kind of stuff than the average bear.

One thing I heard that kinda blew my mind a little was hearing "We're just in the very infancy of education." Having the amount of education we do today has only become common within the last century. 85 years ago was when 50% of young adults in the US finally earned a high school diploma. So, in the grand scheme of things, we don't know as much about education as we do about many other subjects, and thus there is a lot of discovery and change happening.

Just a few days ago I heard about some interesting research into the teaching of reading that is relevant to what you write above: That the most important thing in terms of how we learn to read is NOT actually getting the words correct, but that the ideas get across. They talked about a program that used a combination of words and pictures in books, along with some teaching methods to go along with it that guided the students towards getting the right words eventually, that was highly effective and when used in first grade led to nearly perfect outcomes in literacy a few years later.

So, I'm guessing that what you were seeing was the writing version of that, where the creativity of the writing was maybe considered more important than spelling or grammar, and that their program addressed those items either on subsequent drafts of the assignment or in separate assignments or even separate classes.

Meanwhile, I learned "the old way" and while I always had excellent spelling and grammar because I was a voracious reader at a young age, I absolutely HATED writing while I was in school. It took many years and the ability to write using a computer instead of handwriting before I started to enjoy it.

3393RP said:
Is anyone surprised that great swaths of K-12 students cannot read, write, or perform math functions to grade level?
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No. We vilify teachers and treat them like crap, pay them much less than they're worth, and then complain when we don't get perfectly educated students. This is a completely predictable outcome, yet we haven't changed our approach and in fact have made it even worse.

MauleSkinner said:
Like anything, I’m guessing that ignorance will eventually fall from fashion. Problem is that like the flight instructor situation right now, it’s going to be tough to find someone to teach properly.
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The problem with ignorance falling from fashion is that you have to get the people who are ignorant to realize they're ignorant and vote for those who will prioritize eliminating ignorance. Good luck with that.
 
Rene said:
I'm not nearly old enough to remember this one. My uncle was a toddler when it was released and neither of my parents had been born. But it is a favorite.

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OMG. I still have that First Family album.
 
flyingcheesehead said:
Just a few days ago I heard about some interesting research into the teaching of reading that is relevant to what you write above: That the most important thing in terms of how we learn to read is NOT actually getting the words correct, but that the ideas get across. They talked about a program that used a combination of words and pictures in books, along with some teaching methods to go along with it that guided the students towards getting the right words eventually, that was highly effective and when used in first grade led to nearly perfect outcomes in literacy a few years later.
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Sounds like the sight reading/whole language approach. It's not based on research and it's been debunked. Listen to "Sold a story" podcast.
 
flyingcheesehead said:
The problem with ignorance falling from fashion is that you have to get the people who are ignorant to realize they're ignorant and vote for those who will prioritize eliminating ignorance. Good luck with that.
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Grandpa used to say "smart people can play dumb, but dumb people can't play smart".

The board decides which of their pals to hire as administrators. The administrators decide which hard-up applicant rejected everywhere else to hire. A few are certified, most aren't. The district has a policy to pay uncertified teachers to acquire certification. But, since certified teachers leave, I think the district intentionally hires those unemployable elsewhere.

A few years ago I wrote a paper about my public school joke district. These numbers came from that paper and aren't far out of date.

The district's expenses per student were ca. $13,700 per year, by contrast an in-state freshman at the state U paid $400 less per year for tuition, books, fees, supplies, room, and board.

The district covers an entire township (over 200 square miles, and under 40 people per square mile). It employed more people than any other entity in the township, 20% in administration; 10% in support staff; 20% in transportation; 8% in building services; 5% in food services; 4% in medical staff; 20% as uncertified helpers, aids, and substitutes . . ..

The district is a major landlord, renting space to the township and city governments, the local tribe, the library and parks districts, and a few churches and civic organizations. It contracts transportation, food, and clinical services to the community.

What am I forgetting?

Oh, teaching! Certified teachers . . . let's see 13%. Most had a BA / BS, some were exempt veterans, NONE had a MA / MS / PhD.

So fewer than 1/3 of district employees were engaged in the supposed mission of the district.

In life you don't always get what you pay for. But you usually don't get what you don't pay for.
 
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flyingcheesehead said:
Just a few days ago I heard about some interesting research into the teaching of reading that is relevant to what you write above: That the most important thing in terms of how we learn to read is NOT actually getting the words correct, but that the ideas get across.
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The above sentence naturally made me think of this:

New Math (classic Tom Lehrer song)
 
Daleandee said:
Actually there is ... as what we now have seems to be not working very well.
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A) Can you clarify what doesn’t seem to be working well?

B) Can you clarify why the current “rapid unscheduled disassembly” process offers more hope?
 
Llewtrah381 said:
A) Can you clarify what doesn’t seem to be working well?

B) Can you clarify why the current “rapid unscheduled disassembly” process offers more hope?
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So you believe we currently have the best possible system in place?

Do you suggest there is no improvement to be made?
 
Daleandee said:
So you believe we currently have the best possible system in place?

Do you suggest there is no improvement to be made?
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Ummm…you need to re-read the thread. I said no such thing. I didn’t disagree with you - I asked for you to clarify your statements that things are not working well now and that recent changes offer hope for improvement.

We do not have the best possible system - that’s easy to agree with. But the cause of that - and the fix for it - are not a single thing. And I never said there is no improvement to be made.

Can you clarify the two assertions you made?
 
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