South Bend Indiana plane crash

John Young

John Young

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John Young
Plane crashes into house near airport

SOUTH BEND, Ine. (WANE) - A plane crashed into at least two homes in South Bend near the South Bend Regional Airport Sunday afternoon.

The news organizations report at least one person was hurt. The neighborhood is being evacuated while authorities try to shut of the gas in the area because there is a gas leak.
The airport told WSBT that a Learjet had trouble and crashed into a house on North Iowa Street. Reporters at the scene said the plane is upside down on the home.

News said 2 taken away on strechers. Hope for full recovery.

Regards
John
 
Hi,

Hard to make this photo out .... ?

http://www.wane.com/dpp/news/indiana/plane-crashes-into-house-near-airport

Authorities say a private jet apparently experiencing mechanical trouble has crashed in an Indiana neighborhood, resulting in injuries.

Federal Aviation Administration spokesman Roland Herwig says the Beechcraft Premier I twin-jet had left Tulsa, Okla.'s Riverside Airport and crashed near the South Bend Regional Airport on Sunday afternoon.

Herwig says there's "an indication of a mechanical problem." He says injuries resulted from the crash, but he doesn't know if they occurred on the aircraft or on the ground. He says he doesn't know how many people were aboard the jet.

The neighborhood has been evacuated because of a gas leak.

Neighborhood resident Stan Klaybor says the aircraft clipped the top of 1 house, heavily damaged a second, and came to rest against a third. He says one resident hasn't been seen.

Regards,
John
 
Last edited:
"This is a Hawker Beechcraft Premier jet that was on approach to South Bend. It had departed Tulsa, Oklahoma, Lloyd Jones Airport near Tulsa earlier today. Unknown number of people on board but on approach the pilot reported a problem with electrical power, made several attempts to approach and then on the final attempt to approach it stalled and crashed.

N26DK is the tail number of the aircraft.

The Federal Aviation Administration will investigate. The National Transportation safety board may also investigate. These investigations may take several weeks or more before they are completed."

Regards
John

 
Registered to 7700 Enterprises I read. Irony?
 
Not much if any post crash fire. Ran out of fuel???
 
Hi,

This is horrible - RIP to those we lost.

Speedy recovery to those who made it.

Regards
John

wsbt-lear-jet-crashes-into-home-near-south-ben-005_zps8e4793e5.jpg
 
us AAirways said:
Not much if any post crash fire. Ran out of fuel???
Click to expand...
Preliminary reports point to mechanical failure. There is reportedly fuel in the basement, and they're concerned about the possibility of fire. RIP to those lost.
 
gprellwitz said:
Preliminary reports point to mechanical failure. There is reportedly fuel in the basement, and they're concerned about the possibility of fire.
Click to expand...
Hi,

Affirm, fuel reported in a basement.

According to the news, this plane landed (touched down) then climbed away and crashed. What on earth went wrong? RIP.

Regards
John
 
i was just watching the news and there were 11 g.a. crashes just this weekend.
 
John Young said:
According to the news, this plane landed (touched down) then climbed away and crashed. What on earth went wrong?
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From what I read on another forum, it sounds like they reported an electrical problem and had made more than one attempt to land before they crashed. Have not heard what the specific problem was.
 
patmike said:
i was just watching the news and there were 11 g.a. crashes just this weekend.
Click to expand...

We had more than that on the morning commute just this morning here in Minneapolis/St. Paul (snowstorm). A week ago there were six accidents in a 100 mi stretch of I-94 in western Minnesota on a Sunday morning.

We're a mobile society. Accidents will happens. Sorry for those who lost loved ones.
 
One of the casualties was former Oklahoma quarterback Steve Davis. 60 years old. Same age as I.


Steve Davis, left, stands with Oklahoma coach Barry Switzer and running back
Joe Washington after after the Sooners beat Michigan in the 1976 Orange Bowl
to win a national title.
(Photo: AP)
 
This accident sequence is similar to another recent crash in the southeast. Some of these planes were plagued by brake and ground-spoiler problems shortly after they were introduced. Supposedly the underlying failure modes were fixed at the factory and later models were modified to prevent them.

Dunno if the cause of these accidents is related to those issues, but in both cases you could make the case that brakes and/or ground spoilers malfunctioned, the pilot knew he wouldn't be able to stop on the runway and tried to go around.

This theory is somewhat shaky considering all the other factors that should have prevented such an event, but so far I've heard nothing that sounds more likely. I assume they will eventually figure it out.

John Young said:
Hi,

Affirm, fuel reported in a basement.

According to the news, this plane landed (touched down) then climbed away and crashed. What on earth went wrong? RIP.

Regards
John
Click to expand...
 
wabower said:
This accident sequence is similar to another recent crash in the southeast. Some of these planes were plagued by brake and ground-spoiler problems shortly after they were introduced. Supposedly the underlying failure modes were fixed at the factory and later models were modified to prevent them.

Dunno if the cause of these accidents is related to those issues, but in both cases you could make the case that brakes and/or ground spoilers malfunctioned, the pilot knew he wouldn't be able to stop on the runway and tried to go around.

This theory is somewhat shaky considering all the other factors that should have prevented such an event, but so far I've heard nothing that sounds more likely. I assume they will eventually figure it out.
Click to expand...
If any of the stories going around on the web are true, this could turn out to be more of a Jack Roush crash than mechanical....
 
Fearless Tower said:
If any of the stories going around on the web are true, this could turn out to be more of a Jack Roush crash than mechanical....
Click to expand...


Yeah... but....

Both this plane and the one in Georgia had actually touched down and tried to fly away.... The ground spoiler issue could very well be involved...

Jack Roush's crash was flat out stalling a swept wing plane at low altitude by not maintaining adequate airspeed.... Funny, they didn't use the Roush crash as a reference..... yet...;)

But............. Money does buy privacy as evidenced by the Roush clan buying up EVERY vidoetape of his crash from all the spectators who filmed it..
 
Haven't seen them and don't care but the odds always favor pilot error. But when the accidents look almost identical to the chain of those in the past, you gotta wonder about why they are so similar. Jack's accident profile didn't include a miss or balk or other rejected landing maneuvers.

Fearless Tower said:
If any of the stories going around on the web are true, this could turn out to be more of a Jack Roush crash than mechanical....
Click to expand...
 
N801BH said:
Jack Roush's crash was flat out stalling a swept wing plane at low altitude by not maintaining adequate airspeed....
Click to expand...
That may be exactly what happened.

What precipitated the crash sequence will obviously become more clear as the NTSB digs deeper.
 
Hi,

Heard on Fox News (yeah, I know ....), according to a witness with unknown credentials, after lift off, the plane stalled and spun in.

My question to you guys who know more about these jets than I do, what about reverse thrust? Isn't this used to scrub off speed on the runway?

Further, once reverse thust is engaged, can a successful take-off still occur?

"Dunno" - I am just a weekend warrior. :dunno:

Regards
John
 
N801BH said:
Yeah... but....

Both this plane and the one in Georgia had actually touched down and tried to fly away.... The ground spoiler issue could very well be involved...

Jack Roush's crash was flat out stalling a swept wing plane at low altitude by not maintaining adequate airspeed.... Funny, they didn't use the Roush crash as a reference..... yet...;)

But............. Money does buy privacy as evidenced by the Roush clan buying up EVERY vidoetape of his crash from all the spectators who filmed it..
Click to expand...

I was able to see a video of the crash the day after during the NTSB forum. I didn't see the actual crash as I was at the Red Barn eating dinner. The NTSB team came up on stage and asked if we wanted to see the video before it "disappeared". :confused: They said it was a perfect example of pilot error.

The word among the audience was that the NTSB wasn't suppose to show us, but they did anyway cause they thought the crash was very "preventable".
 
If the plane is equipped with ground spoilers, they may be manual (pilot pulls the lever) or automatic (activated by weight on wheels and wheel spin-up after touchdown). Most braking systems include anti-skid, so the pilot can stand on the pedals without flat-spotting or blowouts. Reversers are available on many jets, as is reverse prop thrust on turboprops. The reversers are typically the last device that is employed and also the least effective. The published landing/stop distances typically do not include the use of reversers.

John Young said:
Hi,

Heard on Fox News (yeah, I know ....), according to a witness with unknown credentials, after lift off, the plane stalled and spun in.

My question to you guys who know more about these jets than I do, what about reverse thrust? Isn't this used to scrub off speed on the runway?

Further, once reverse thust is engaged, can a successful take-off still occur?

"Dunno" - I am just a weekend warrior. :dunno:

Regards
John
Click to expand...
 
John Young said:
Hi,

Heard on Fox News (yeah, I know ....), according to a witness with unknown credentials, after lift off, the plane stalled and spun in.

My question to you guys who know more about these jets than I do, what about reverse thrust? Isn't this used to scrub off speed on the runway?

Further, once reverse thust is engaged, can a successful take-off still occur?

"Dunno" - I am just a weekend warrior. :dunno:

Regards
John
Click to expand...
The Premier I doesn't have thrust reversers.

On approach, the magic power setting is 63 percent N1, or engine fan speed. With full flaps and gear down, the VREF for our landing weight (10,700 pounds) worked out to be 115 kt. After touchdown, speed brake extension causes a separate set of spoilers — ground spoilers — to deploy along with the flight spoilers. The Premier I has no reverse thrust, so this lift-dumping function — along with the antiskid brakes — is essential to achieve shorter landing distances.
Click to expand...
http://www.aopa.org/pilot/features/2002/feat0207.html

But to answer your question, it's not a good idea to try and take off again after you have engaged the TRs. There have been a few bad accidents that have been caused by pilots who were trying to stop, suddenly realized that they couldn't, then tried to go around. In those cases it's probably just better to go off the end of the runway at a slow speed like the airliner did in Jackson Hole.
 
Hi,

Thanks guys. Dang, but you guys have a "lotta" knowledge compared to this weekend warrior. :mad2:

Regards
John
 
N801BH said:
WOW...........

I figured they did a touch and go kinda trick and lost control just above the runway and careened into the neighborhood..... That plane fell from 500+ feet up.. Hard to believe anyone could have survived..:confused:
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I read a comment by a supposed pilot witness who described it as a stall spin. Hence the Roush comment. I don't think this was anything like the Georgia accident.
 
Fearless Tower said:
...... I don't think this was anything like the Georgia accident.
Click to expand...

I agree.... The Georgia crash was caused by the plane hitting the concrete power pole and shearing off the entire wing...

Why it did a touch and go is the 50,000 dollar question... As far as I know the pilot is still alive and might be talking by now...
 
Hi,

RIP - very sad. :sad:

AVWEB said:
A Hawker Beechcraft Premier I jet that crashed into a house on Sunday had made two attempts to land, the NTSB said Monday afternoon. The airplane hit two houses before crashing into a third near South Bend [Ind.] Regional Airport.

The owner of the aircraft, Wesley Caves, 58, of Tulsa, Okla., and his friend Steve Davis, 60, were in the cockpit when it crashed, and both were killed. Both men were certified pilots, and it was not clear which one was flying the airplane, the safety board said.

Two passengers and a resident of one of the houses were injured but are expected to survive. NTSB spokesman Peter Knudson told AVweb the jet was on an IFR flight plan and departed Tulsa for South Bend in VFR conditions.



The jet attempted to land at South Bend about 4:15 p.m. on Sunday. "During the second aborted landing attempt the aircraft was observed to climb away from the runway, enter a bank, and then shortly thereafter impact the residence," said NTSB investigator Todd Foxx. "In general, I am unaware at this time of any fleet safety issues. Of course we look at the fleet safety record during our prolonged investigation," he said. Hundreds of people in the neighborhood were evacuated due to leaking fuel from the jet, but they have been allowed to return. The wreckage of the jet was removed on Tuesday and taken to a hangar at the South Bend Airport.
Click to expand...
 
Uncommanded engine roll back? Pitch trim runaway not caught in time?
 
No history of either with this plane AFAIK, therefore doubtful IMO.

As a former instructor/evaluator/examiner/check airman in turbine-powered airplanes, and without regard to this accident, I can unequivocally state that training centers and IP's who work there are nervous as hell any time an owner pilot shows up for a type rating or initial training in a high-performance airplane, even one that is supposedly cave-man simple.

The Munson accident 30-some years ago served notice that the training of big-buck owners couldn't be shorted and that they were to be treated the same as other toads seeking similar privileges. Whatever the outcome, I'll promise that some training center (and their law firm and the FAA) is now poring over every shred of training material in the file of both of the guys who were in the cockpit in South Bend.

The same was true in the Carolina accident, but the owner-pilot issue always adds an additional layer of intensity.

bnt83 said:
Uncommanded engine roll back? Pitch trim runaway not caught in time?
Click to expand...
 
Hopefully this is just media nonsense (I'd expect better from Flying) but if true, it would indicate both that the pilot was shall we say "a bit underqualified" and that a "mechanical problem" might well be a factor.

FlyingMagazine said:
A report from the Tulsa World newspaper said the Premier pilot needed several attempts to land the airplane two weeks ago on a flight from Memphis to Tulsa due to a malfunctioning autopilot.
Click to expand...
 
gismo said:
Hopefully this is just media nonsense (I'd expect better from Flying) but if true, it would indicate both that the pilot was shall we say "a bit underqualified" and that a "mechanical problem" might well be a factor.
Click to expand...
The problem is that this article combined with the stories going around about the guy on some other forums apparently seem to indicate a pilot who was more interested in speed than proficiency.
 
From WSBT...

March 5, a former high school football coach from Memphis, Tennessee said the owner of the plane, Wes Caves, flew him from Memphis to Tulsa, Oklahoma and back for a speaking engagement.

Bill Courtney said the people on the plane were visibly shaken after it landed.

“I was on the ground. I had no idea – evidently they’d made two or three attempts to land, the weather was terrible and they were having problems that were, to my understanding, primarily weather related but when they came into the lobby of the FBO, someone said that the automatic pilot disengaged as well,” Courtney told WSBT.
 
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