Someone tell me I got this wrong....

I thought the guy was asking a simple, honest question - what should he do to reinstate his medical given his history?

The following was included in your initial response to him:

Or you could just "lie". See my avatar.

Sorry to be so blunt, but you are displaying situational ethics. I "get it" that the FAA is daunting and at times inappropriately so, but if you get good advice and are prepared, it's pretty easy, esp. in this case. So it's dismaying that you are considering lying.
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It is a pretty big leap to go from the guy's simple question to a response which assumes the guy is planning to lie and is displaying situational ethics.

IMO, it is generally preferable to give someone the benefit of the doubt rather than jumping to negative conclusions and jumping their ****...
 
kyleb said:
I thought the guy was asking a simple, honest question - what should he do to reinstate his medical given his history?

The following was included in your initial response to him:
Or you could just "lie". See my avatar.

Sorry to be so blunt, but you are displaying situational ethics. I "get it" that the FAA is daunting and at times inappropriately so, but if you get good advice and are prepared, it's pretty easy, esp. in this case. So it's dismaying that you are considering lying.
​
It is a pretty big leap to go from the guy's simple question to a response which assumes the guy is planning to lie and is displaying situational ethics.

IMO, it is generally preferable to give someone the benefit of the doubt rather than jumping to negative conclusions and jumping their ****...
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You could be right. That's why I've posted this. I'm asking though, about his title, "what to disclose" and the question which was "...or should I mention the past medical (and the annual restriction)?"
:nonod: Somebody from my generation would assumedly not even think of "non mention, nee omission, nee lying.

What really killed me was after all that, he says, "I'm upfront".....not really. But I could be wrong.

Thanks, though.
 
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Bruce, I think you have seen so many folks post on various forums on how to "work the system" that you are automatically suspicious of the guys motive. Its understandable, kind of like my friend the former police detective and county's chief polygraph guy, even when he retired and became a private detective "Everyone was guilty" LOL.

I read the guy's post as just wanting to know what he was required to do not that he was seeking to pull something.
 
bbchien said:
You could be right. That's why I've posted this. I'm asking though, about his title, "what to disclose" and the question which was "...or should I mention the past medical (and the annual restriction)?"
:nonod: Somebody from my generation would assumedly not even think of "non mention, nee omission, nee lying.

What really killed me was after all that, he says, "I'm upfront".....not really. But I could be wrong.

Thanks, though.
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There's a pretty good chance that the OP didn't even realize (initially) that there is a box he'd either have to check "yes" or lie if he was to avoid disclosing his previous condition (or medication). I think lot of fairly honest folks don't consider it wrong to refrain from offering up information that wasn't required, even if they know or suspect that the other party would prefer to know about it.

And virtually every one I know will bristle (at best) if you blatantly call them a liar in a public forum. I'll bet that if you had simply cautioned against any attempt to avoid disclosure along with your very good advice about proper preparation there would have been good feelings all around.

OTOH, I also think it's likely that the OP will eventually realize that your intentions were entirely good.
 
bbchien said:
http://forums.aopa.org/showthread.php?p=1557314#post1557314

How come this 20 something has no idea that his intent is very clearly "sneaky".....both the string title and the initial question....

...or am I out in left field.....
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Remember you asked... my opinion is you started too quickly out in left field - and kept playing there too long.

Seems to me that if he had planned to lie then he wouldn't have bothered to post his question. After a 7 years absence a person's recollection of the medical regs, which have evolved and will now evolve even faster, is probably sketchy.

Perhaps you've run into enough people who are looking for a way around the medical regs that you are displaying a syndrome an old cop once mentioned to me: that after spending all his working life dealing so often with the lowest of humanity, he acquired a deep distrust of everyone's motives and ethics, so became suspicious of even the most pedestrian dialog.
 
AdamZ said:
Bruce, I think you have seen so many folks post on various forums on how to "work the system" that you are automatically suspicious of the guys motive. Its understandable, kind of like my friend the former police detective and county's chief polygraph guy, even when he retired and became a private detective "Everyone was guilty" LOL.

I read the guy's post as just wanting to know what he was required to do not that he was seeking to pull something.
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Interesting - I took so long to compose my post that I didn't see yours mentioning the same "everyone was guilty/suspect" "syndrome" I was told about.
 
Doc,

I think you got the gut check info you were looking for, so I won't attempt to add anything to that...

bbchien said:
Somebody from my generation would assumedly not even think of "non mention, nee omission, nee lying.
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But I had to do a double-take (maybe even a spit-take) at that line. There's no generation without their long list of professional and non-professional liars.

You're a good egg and probably really believe there's a significant number of folk who wouldn't abide it in your generation. It tends to be a trait amongst those who don't actively lie to get their way to think others are like themselves.

Two links... Apologies if the first has a slightly offensive book title. The book title won't pass the filter here at PoA, by means of explanation. It shows pretty clearly that business leadership is actively choosing bad behavior... while sugar-coating it in fake civility... and considers it normal ethics today.

In fact, they're "more successful" because of it... Or so the author opines.

The forum filter may mangle the URL. If it does, you can probably figure out how to fix it. ;)

http://www.amazon.com/*******ology-Science-Behind-Getting-Your/dp/1598699105

Or go to the author's page and the book is listed there.

http://www.amazon.com/Steven-B.-Green/e/B0035Y3HOY/ref=ntt_athr_dp_pel_1

The second is just a quick fascinating talk via TED that seems to apply well or those of us under the delusion that lying isn't an everyday occurrence.

Worth the 20 minutes to watch. She's a decent speaker and the subject is presented in an entertaining way.

http://www.ted.com/talks/pamela_meyer_how_to_spot_a_liar.html

Especially true from her talk is that once you train yourself to spot a liar, you then have the option to shut down the two-way street required where not only do we lie, but the other person has to allow the lie to stand in order for a lie to work. You've been honing your lie-spotting skills for a long time in a communications format where it's a very hard read. No body language, far less "tells"... so your triggers may be a bit over-sensitive. But also probably pretty close considering the limitations of the communications medium.

(And here I just said I wasn't going to reply to the original question... Sigh. I guess I lied. ;) )
 
No harm, no foul, play on. Blue's ball out of bounds, clock starts on my whistle.
 
He was asking if he could get away with a lie. Plain and simple. Then when he realized that he wasn't in a crowd of fellow liars he frantically tried backstroking out of the spotlight. Unfortunately, his posts (like his FAA medical history) were already part of the record and spoke for themselves.

You are the perfect person for that forum. As you say over and over, there is a right way and a wrong way to deal with medical issues. The right way may be hard, but the wrong way can be a one way street in the wrong direction.
 
And for the large number of us you have helped, never let the small number of baddies get you down.
 
Rigged4Flight said:
He was asking if he could get away with a lie. Plain and simple. .
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Not that plain and simple to me. Here are the facts and one conjecture that I saw:

(1) Seven years ago he was able to get a medical with the condition mentioned in his post.
(2) Therefore there seemed little question (to him) about passing the medical this time around.
(3) Hence the only thing he seemed to want to gain was getting rid of the yearly restriction and hassle.
(4) So he lays this all out on the AOPA forum, possibly thinking the rules allow an old condition to no longer be reported.

The doc was right to mention the consequences of lying - but doing so in 4 of his 5 paragraphs was a tad overkill.
 
Jim Logajan said:
Not that plain and simple to me. Here are the facts and one conjecture that I saw:
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Okay - I reread the thread a bit slower, and I can see how the TS could be justifiably upset at being called a liar right out of the gate. Dr. Bruce also probably deals with more than his fair share of liars on a daily basis, so it is also easy to see why he was quick on the trigger.
 
bbchien said:
You could be right. That's why I've posted this. I'm asking though, about his title, "what to disclose" and the question which was "...or should I mention the past medical (and the annual restriction)?"
:nonod: Somebody from my generation would assumedly not even think of "non mention, nee omission, nee lying.

What really killed me was after all that, he says, "I'm upfront".....not really. But I could be wrong.

Thanks, though.
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??? That is about the worst assumption I have seen you make Bruce.
 
Freely admitting I have no idea what the medical condition being discussed in the other thread means, I read the question as one of what to report since it is cured(?). For all I know it is somewhere between Athletes foot and lung cancer. :dunno:

I read Dr B's responses as one who felt a serious condition might be omitted while the OP might have felt since it was "cured" was no big deal. OTOH, with Dr B's background he is rightly spring loaded to detect and advise against any indication of lying on Medical Exams.

While on balance I think Dr B's initial responses were a little strong, irritating one individual is a small price to pay in the larger scheme of things. ;)

Dr B, thanks for all you do on these boards and I am certainly impressed with someone who is so dedicated to helping others navigate the maze of the FAA taking the time to get a "position check". Reminds me of former NYC Mayor Ed Koch who was famous for asking anyone and everyone "How am I doing?". But again I betray my age.

Cheers
 
bbchien said:
Thanks, everyone.
This constitutes a "position check".

Thanks.
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No one can really tell what was in the guy's mind. When I first read the post (and before there were any responses, IIRC) I took it as merely a stupid question with no deliberate attempt at dishonesty. I'm sometimes really naive, however ...

It's water under the bridge, though. Forget it. :)
 
I know you were trying to help this guy...and I'm pretty sure without your advice he may have become a "lamb before the slaughter". But, just reading his posts, I think he was wondering, if a certain amount of time goes by, do you need to mention a certain medication?

Maybe he was dancing around, trying to see if omitting it would get him caught, but I didn't get that vibe at all.
 
Doc,

IMO, it's entirely too difficult to read into someone's head based on reading text on an internet forum, unless they specifically state it otherwise. People have different interpetations and it's difficult to analyze every aspect of a person's character solely via the internet, without a face-to-face consultation.

BUT, I know you HAVE to receive many posts or inquiries regarding or similar to " if the FAA will ever find out that I take antidepressants if I choose to omit it from the medical application?" Quite honestly, I can only imagine how difficult it is to give someone the benefit of the doubt and separate those who have intent of being honest and those that are considering lying on the application.

You provide such an AMAZING service to this industry and quite frankly, for a VERY REASONABLE (if not, too reasonable...but don't quote me :rofl:) price. Despite, the FREE consultation you provide on the internet. I talk about you and your wonderful services that you provide all the time to pilots who fear of getting their medical.

We appreciate all that you do. You are a rarity to this industry and deserve much more credit than anyone can ever provide you with.
 
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