Some people are fast burners!

I don't know why because you think his parents are paying for the training that it discredits this guy as a pilot. His parents didn't spend all that time up in the plane or studying or passing the checkrides. He did that by himself so the fact his parents maybe paid for it (none of us know) doesn't make him any less of a pilot than others who have those ratings as well.
 
Aviatrix said:
I don't know why because you think his parents are paying for the training that it discredits this guy as a pilot. His parents didn't spend all that time up in the plane or studying or passing the checkrides. He did that by himself so the fact his parents maybe paid for it (none of us know) doesn't make him any less of a pilot than others who have those ratings as well.
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We need something about which to give David a hard time.
 
GCA319 said:
I agree. Whether somebody is a good instructor doesn't come with age or even flight time for that matter. It's all about personality, teaching skills and dedication to the job (i.e. not caring since you're just there for flight time. BTW, it's fine to use instruction as a means to an end (its really the only way these days) just don't suck at it). Think about this for a second, let's say there's a guy who has been instructing for 40 years and has 3,000 hours and somebody who has been flying for 3 or so years and has 500ish hours. Who do you think has more recency of experience? I'd argue that the 500 hour guy has the potential to be the better instructor since he/she has been through the training/checkrides recently and has flown quite a bit over the past few years; however, it ultimately comes down to that person and their dedication to being a good instructor. But then again, what do I know? Afterall, I'm just one of those dangerous <30 year old CFI's...Also, I find that younger students have a tough time relating to that old, crusty guy that everybody says you have to go to for your training. Think about that huge generational gap.
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You completely missed the irony of the statement. If no one ever got instruction from someone unless they had 30 years of instruction under their belt....how does the person instruct from years 1-29?
 
Aviatrix said:
I don't know why because you think his parents are paying for the training that it discredits this guy as a pilot. His parents didn't spend all that time up in the plane or studying or passing the checkrides. He did that by himself so the fact his parents maybe paid for it (none of us know) doesn't make him any less of a pilot than others who have those ratings as well.
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It doesn't discredit anyone's piloting skills. I've met David, and he's a respectful pilote guy in person. However, the vast, vast majority of people I've known who had everything handed to them growing up were, and continued to be selfish, expected everything to be continued to be handed to them, and were generally self centered *******s. When the didn't get what they wanted when they were in their 20s and 30s, like they did in their teens things went bad. Breaking the law bad. I don't get that impression from David, and didn't when I met him, but he's well outside the norm of all the spoiled brats that were given everything to them by mommy and daddy, and acted like they sacrificed as much as the person that scratched, clawed, and really sacrificed to get to where they are.
 
EdFred said:
You completely missed the irony of the statement. If no one ever got instruction from someone unless they had 30 years of instruction under their belt....how does the person instruct from years 1-29?
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I was in agreement with you-just elaborating on what you said. Guess I should have been more clear on that.
 
EdFred said:
It doesn't discredit anyone's piloting skills. I've met David, and he's a respectful pilote guy in person. However, the vast, vast majority of people I've known who had everything handed to them growing up were, and continued to be selfish, expected everything to be continued to be handed to them, and were generally self centered *******s. When the didn't get what they wanted when they were in their 20s and 30s, like they did in their teens things went bad. Breaking the law bad. I don't get that impression from David, and didn't when I met him, but he's well outside the norm of all the spoiled brats that were given everything to them by mommy and daddy, and acted like they sacrificed as much as the person that scratched, clawed, and really sacrificed to get to where they are.
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Agreed. I dont know David nor do I know who financed his flying, but even if it was 100% from his parents, who cares? It looks like he has made good use of the tools he has.
 
GCA319 said:
Agreed. I dont know David nor do I know who financed his flying, but even if it was 100% from his parents, who cares? It looks like he has made good use of the tools he has.
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There are plenty of people who have wealthy parents that would pay any reasonable amount for their kid to get trained / schooled in something that they could make career out of. And many young adults throw that away.

Having parents pay for your flying does not make you less of a pilot than someone who paid for it themselves. If I was not limited by my bank account i'd have a lot more experience now and be a better pilot. :)
 
I worked at the local airport at the age of 15 to pay for my flying lessons. On my 16th birthday, I rode my motorcycle, that I bought with my hard-earned money, out to the airport for my first solo. Don't know if that made me a better pilot to pay for all that myself. :dunno:
 
weilke said:
There have been a number of accidents with 'prodigy' commercial pilots and CFIs where judgement was the key ingredient lacking for a safe conclusion of the flight.
I have flown with CFIs and IIs between the ages of 22 and 84, most of my flight training was with folks in AARP age. You dont get to be old in aviation without judgement, and while they may not have been up to date on the newest subparagraph change in the AIM, they sure knew when not to fly.
So I wish the young man good luck and I am sure he fulfills all the formal requirements for his ratings. Unless I knew a lot more about him, I would probably not hire him for anything that includes flying without adult supervision (e.g. ferrying our plane to maintenance or flying my wife to some destination if I am tied up with work).
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LOL, a good bit of my flight training was from UFO rated guys, most had come through WWII-Vietnam. Also had some young Scandinavian guys lol. One thing they all had in common was a finding a way to fly.
 
In fairness, one does not "hear stories of/remember as vividly" the kid to who much was handed and grows up to be a contributing member of society.

EdFred said:
It doesn't discredit anyone's piloting skills. I've met David, and he's a respectful pilote guy in person. However, the vast, vast majority of people I've known who had everything handed to them growing up were, and continued to be selfish, expected everything to be continued to be handed to them, and were generally self centered *******s. When the didn't get what they wanted when they were in their 20s and 30s, like they did in their teens things went bad. Breaking the law bad. I don't get that impression from David, and didn't when I met him, but he's well outside the norm of all the spoiled brats that were given everything to them by mommy and daddy, and acted like they sacrificed as much as the person that scratched, clawed, and really sacrificed to get to where they are.
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All that's being said here, David, is that some prefer folks with a track record. You'll have yours before not long :).
 
When I was just a lad with 6 or 700hrs. I had occasion to fly with a 7000hr CFI. Told him I was in awe of his experience, he told me he has just made more mistakes than me. Now that I'm no longer 20, and have considerable flying time, (which, as some have pointed out, is no guarantee of aeronautical excellence), I've made plenty of mistakes...that I won't again repeat.
 
DavidWhite said:
So people only do stupid stuff and die when they are younger? FWIW I've never had a close friend die in a plane crash (and pray I never do) but I have had several acquaintances and they were all 30+.

Also FWIW I've done stuff I'll never do again. I think every pilot has.
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Younger people make more stupid choices than older people. I don't care what anyone says, that's just a fact.

That's not to say that every young person makes bad decisions every time, or that every older person makes good decisions every time. But life experience adds to most people’s pool of knowledge, helping them with each successive decision. I said most people. Justin Bieber and Michael Jackson are notable exceptions.

While you can't make a blanket statement that every young person always makes bad decisions, you also can't say that every young person’s pool of knowledge is equal to everybody else’s. You only have to look back at your own beliefs and opinions from 10 years ago. I'll bet that if you're under 30 you can point to at least a dozen things that you believed then that you don’t believe now, now that you know better. If you’re under 20 that list is probably too long to count. If you’re 18 and look back 10 years, you may have only been a couple of years past believing in Santa. Maybe you thought that girls were gross, or that the 5 second rule was backed up by medical science.

Q: Everything being equal, who do you trust more?
A: Either one.
But it’s not equal, experience count’s a lot.

Younger people make more stupid choices than older people.

bbchien said:
All that's being said here, David, is that some prefer folks with a track record. You'll have yours before not long :).
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This sums it up nicely.
 
weilke said:
So I wish the young man good luck and I am sure he fulfills all the formal requirements for his ratings. Unless I knew a lot more about him, I would probably not hire him for anything that includes flying without adult supervision (e.g. ferrying our plane to maintenance or flying my wife to some destination if I am tied up with work).
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I have to admit I've had these thoughts as well. When I purchased my plane I needed transition training and hired a CFI where the plane was at to kill two birds with one stone (get it home and transition). Was a little apprehensive when I found out the CFI was 22. When he arrived, he operated like a 50 year old, knew all of the avionics in my plane stone cold (G530, stormscope, engine monitor, fuel analyzer etc.) and has been one of the best "stick and rudder" pilots I have ever seen. When I asked his age he was hesitant telling me older guys like me (44 then 6 years ago) often would not request his services upon finding out.

His background included flying for years prior to the PPL minimum age restriction including glider rating. Did PPL and IR on his birthday, followed in short order with the other ratings and multi-engine which he paid (relative was a CFI and he had access to "fuel only" flying gig for the initial ratings). He was a freight dog as well paying his own way for aviation AND going to college between 18 and 22. On our trip he had just invested in two mobile and licensed food trucks that go to the refineries to feed the workers. You couldn't meet a more responsible 22 year old if you tried. Am glad I had the pleasure of using his services.
 
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danhagan said:
I have to admit I've had these thoughts as well. When I purchased my plane I needed transition training and hired a CFI where the plane was at to kill two birds with one stone (get it home and transition). Was a little apprehensive when I found out the CFI was 22. When he arrived, he operated like a 50 year old, knew all of the avionics in my plane stone cold (G530, stormscope, engine monitor, fuel analyzer etc.) and has been one of the best "stick and rudder" pilots I have ever seen. When I asked his age he was hesitant telling me older guys like me (44 then 6 years ago) often would not request his services upon finding out.
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I have no problem flying with a 22 year old CFI. I stated that I would not hire a 19 year old pilot to do unsupervised flying that requires independent judgement.
 
GCA319 said:
I agree. Whether somebody is a good instructor doesn't come with age or even flight time for that matter. It's all about personality, teaching skills and dedication to the job (i.e. not caring since you're just there for flight time. BTW, it's fine to use instruction as a means to an end (its really the only way these days) just don't suck at it). Think about this for a second, let's say there's a guy who has been instructing for 40 years and has 3,000 hours and somebody who has been flying for 3 or so years and has 500ish hours. Who do you think has more recency of experience? I'd argue that the 500 hour guy has the potential to be the better instructor since he/she has been through the training/checkrides recently and has flown quite a bit over the past few years; however, it ultimately comes down to that person and their dedication to being a good instructor. But then again, what do I know? Afterall, I'm just one of those dangerous <30 year old CFI's...Also, I find that younger students have a tough time relating to that old, crusty guy that everybody says you have to go to for your training. Think about that huge generational gap.
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My question is how in the heck could someone instruct for 40 years and only log 3000 hours??? :dunno:
 
weilke said:
I have no problem flying with a 22 year old CFI. I stated that I would not hire a 19 year old pilot to do unsupervised flying that requires independent judgement.
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Because we lack critical thinking skills and tend to panic when under pressure.


:rolleyes:
 
DavidWhite said:
Because we lack critical thinking skills and tend to panic when under pressure.


:rolleyes:
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Doesn't mean you dont have them, you just haven't had much of a chance to demonstrate them.
I work in a college-town. It pretty much caused me to loose any faith in the human race.
 
weilke said:
Doesn't mean you dont have them, you just haven't had much of a chance to demonstrate them.
I work in a college-town. It pretty much caused me to loose any faith in the human race.
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Funny, my work in a college town cemented mine. I'd fly with David any day. He is an exceptional young man.
 
steingar said:
Funny, my work in a college town cemented mine. I'd fly with David any day. He is an exceptional young man.
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People from Ohio never have very high expectations. I mean, couch burning is a hobby there. :D
 
Some young pilots think they're pretty damn good. Then when you talk to them 30 years later they are quick to say they didn't know squat, but just thought they did because when they were 20 they knew more than they had known when they were even younger.

Are they right at 20 or at 50?

DavidWhite said:
Because we lack critical thinking skills and tend to panic when under pressure.


:rolleyes:
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wabower said:
Some young pilots think they're pretty damn good. Then when you talk to them 30 years later they are quick to say they didn't know squat, but just thought they did because when they were 20 they knew more than they had known when they were even younger.

Are they right at 20 or at 50?
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"I'm not as good as I once was" :wink2:
 
I believe it is generally accepted that maturity comes with age. However, that age varies a great deal between individuals.

In the FBO at the field I grew up at we had several familiar cartoons/posters on the wall.

"There are old pilots and there are bold pilots but there are no old, bold pilots".

A drawing of a pilot in an open cockpit plane with his neck screwed up like a cork screw with the caption "look around, a midair collision can spoil your whole day".

And then those of us old enough to remember Pan American World Airways with the slogan "World's most experienced airline". My father was an executive with PAA and he would occasionally come home after a PAA crash saying "well, today we had another experience".

We have a number of young pilots on this and other aviation forums. I believe that their participation and interactions with older pilots benefits all of us. I hope that I am never too old to learn and that young people are never so young as to believe they know it all. The bumper sticker that says "hire a teenager while they still know everything" does not apply to all teenagers. :)
 
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