Solo Endorsement Question

[marcoseddi]

Hi,

My solo Endorsement says 8knot crosswind and 10 knot headwind I dont know whats normal but seems good. Question is:

Is it Crosswind component or any wind direction not directly down the runway considered a crosswind?

 

[AggieMike88]

Any wind not 100% straight down the runway is a crosswind.

At DTO, RWY18 is actually 177* magnetic. So if the wind was reported at 169, that's a crosswind.

8kts CW and 10kts HW is a bit conservative, but if that's the rules of your school, that's the rules.

Beyond your original question, I do encourage you to work with your CFI to get in as much crosswind landing practice as you can afford. This point in your training is a good time, as is just after you get your license.

I'm finding that I didn't do enough during my training, so now I try to take advantage of any opportunities to go practice. I think it's a skill that is worth making as sharp as possible and never should be allowed to get rusty.

 

[ebykowsky]

That means the component. Theoretically, a wind 12kts at a few degrees off the runway could still be within limits. The limits at my second school were 5kt TOTAL, 3kt xwind for first solo, 8kts total and 5xwind thereafter. Worst yet, I'd already started xc solo at my last school but had to find a still day to do the "1st solo" at the new school.

 

[Matthew]

Hi,

My solo Endorsement says 8knot crosswind and 10 knot headwind I dont know whats normal but seems good. Question is:

Is it Crosswind component or any wind direction not directly down the runway considered a crosswind?

Yeah, if the wind is straight down the rwy, the xwind is zero. Straight across is 100%. Anything else, take the sin() of the angle off the rwy and multiply by the wind ( or just look at the chart you proably have on your kneeboard or e6b.)

You'll probably find you are limited more by a 10kt headwind than an 8kt xwind. But you'll have to do the math. Use cos() for the headwind.

 

[flyingmoose]

You got it. Most likely you will always find winds somewhere in between. Just look at your X-wind chart and figure your headwind component and X-wind component. Im sure your CFI will help you.

 

[marcoseddi]

My main question was, is it component or just hey runway 32 and wind is 280 at 9 knots Can I Go? Because that is a component of 6. Wondering what is the technicality for the endorsement and for insurance what is the real legit rule?

 

[Matthew]

I'm pretty sure the limitation is whatever the CFI wants it to be. My xwind solo limitation started at 8, then went to 10, then 12, then 15 (or something like that). And it is probably the component. Just another thing to put on your list of things to ask your cfi.

 

[ebykowsky]

My main question was, is it component or just hey runway 32 and wind is 280 at 9 knots Can I Go? Because that is a component of 6. Wondering what is the technicality for the endorsement and for insurance what is the real legit rule?

Crosswind is always component.

 

[LDJones]

I think it's a skill that is worth making as sharp as possible and never should be allowed to get rusty.

This weekend I had to divert due to weather and the airport's main runway was perfectly aligned with the 19G26 winds....except as I approached the downwind I saw the huge, lighted "X" signs on that runway!! Had to take the crossing runway which was 90 deg. to the prevailing winds. I used ALL the control inputs available on that 172 SP to get her on the ground.

Stay sharp on your crosswinds....never know when you'll need it in spades.

 

[marcoseddi]

He wasnt sure but said just do it as if its a crosswind keep it at 8 althought a component maybe 10 or 12 wind speed and depending on the wind direction could still be a component of 8 so well see..

 

[brooklyn26point2]

There is a chart, likely to appear in your POH, that has a chart of headwind/crosswind components associated with wind speeds and directions.

 

[AggieMike88]

There is a chart, likely to appear in your POH, that has a chart of headwind/crosswind components associated with wind speeds and directions.

Also appears on the PPL written exam

 

[marcoseddi]

I know How to figure out crosswind component! My question was do they use the endorsement on cross wind component or when it says 8 knot cross wind meaning if it was runway 32 and wind was at 10 knots I can go or can't because the component is less than 8 but the wind is 10 and its off runway so it's a cross wind. I hope this clears my technical question.

 

[C182P]

Since your CFI endorsed you, you should really ask him/her, but my opinion is that the specific wind speed doesn't matter, only the crosswind and headwind components matter.

 

[flyingmoose]

My main question was, is it component or just hey runway 32 and wind is 280 at 9 knots Can I Go? Because that is a component of 6. Wondering what is the technicality for the endorsement and for insurance what is the real legit rule?

Yes you are fine, unless of course your cfi says otherwise. Have you asked him\her? The short answer is yes it falls within your limits that has been endorsed for you.

 

[rbridges]

I know How to figure out crosswind component! My question was do they use the endorsement on cross wind component or when it says 8 knot cross wind meaning if it was runway 32 and wind was at 10 knots I can go or can't because the component is less than 8 but the wind is 10 and its off runway so it's a cross wind. I hope this clears my technical question.

common sense says that it should be crosswind component. The more it's angled off the runway heading, the more it becomes a factor. That being said, I'd ask for clarification.

 

[JeffDG]

If you want the mathematical definition of the XWind, it's the total wind speed multiplied by the sine of the angle between the runway and the wind direction.

So, if you're landing on runway 36, and the wind is from 030, and the speed is 15 knots, you have:

15 * sin(30) = 15 * .5 = 7.5 or within limits

On the other hand, same runway and wind, but from 040

15 * sin(40) = 15 * 0.6428 = 9.6 knots of crosswind (outside of your limit).

 

[Jaybird180]

That means the component. Theoretically, a wind 12kts at a few degrees off the runway could still be within limits. The limits at my second school were 5kt TOTAL, 3kt xwind for first solo, 8kts total and 5xwind thereafter. Worst yet, I'd already started xc solo at my last school but had to find a still day to do the "1st solo" at the new school.

Depending on location, its a wonder that anyone solos

 

[poadeleted20]

My main question was, is it component or just hey runway 32 and wind is 280 at 9 knots Can I Go? Because that is a component of 6. Wondering what is the technicality for the endorsement and for insurance what is the real legit rule?

The rule is whatever your instructor put in the endorsement is limiting. If the instructor omitted the word "component", then it's not clear what s/he meant. Best to ask your instructor to clarify the endorsement so there's no question.

 

[Jaybird180]

My school had a 10knot Xwind, 15knot total rule. Not many days outside that unless TRSA was nearby.

Good stuff at the home drone. I look forward to getting some xwind practice soon. Fun stuff.

 

[alfadog]

The rule is whatever your instructor put in the endorsement is limiting. If the instructor omitted the word "component", then it's not clear what s/he meant. Best to ask your instructor to clarify the endorsement so there's no question.

+1. He needs to add the word "component" to your endorsement or you run the risk of easily violating it.

 

[marcoseddi]

+1. He needs to add the word "component" to your endorsement or you run the risk of easily violating it.

That's what I told him and that's why I brought this up I'm very technical..

 

[marcoseddi]

He was like baffled by the question basically said if its off the runway anyhjng off up to 8 don't go kind of find that odd..

 

[NineThreeKilo]

Depending on time of year and location headwinds can shift to x-winds quick, hence whey I just put "Call CFI for approval before solo flight". Takes the guess work out of it, just pull the wx on my phone and give a go or nogo.

 

[Jaybird180]

Depending on time of year and location headwinds can shift to x-winds quick, hence whey I just put "Call CFI for approval before solo flight". Takes the guess work out of it, just pull the wx on my phone and give a go or nogo.

With all due respect sir (this statement always precedes a statement that may not be as respectful...)
Do you find this type of endorsement limiting to developing the student's evaluation of the conditions and learning to make the decision on their own instead of a "CYA endorsement"?

The question is serious, although it may appear a bit off-handed. I mean no disrespect (really).

 

[NineThreeKilo]

With all due respect sir (this statement always precedes a statement that may not be as respectful...)
Do you find this type of endorsement limiting to developing the student's evaluation of the conditions and learning to make the decision on their own instead of a "CYA endorsement"?

The question is serious, although it may appear a bit off-handed. I mean no disrespect (really).

No

The students makes his decision based on what he has learned so far and his ability to judge the wx and his abilities in his airframe.

The student then CONFIRMS with the CFI.

I believe this yields a better aviator then paint by numbers, ie "nothing over X total wind and/or X crosswind comp"

The student must develop a safe limit on his own and apply that limit to his go no-go call.

ONLY after he does this will he call me, he then goes through his thought process on the wx, tells me his decision and I say whatever I have (or don't have) to say about it.

As a CFI I have better results letting post solo students learn and develope their own limits while I simply act as a saftey net and sounding board. Nine times out of ten they already know the answer, any idiot can listen to the AWOS and look at a limit in their logbook, by NOT having that limit they have to put their thinking cap on and use some common sense (something people lack), they just call me to confirm and I just make sure their decision is sound, if not sound great opportunity to discuss why.

 

[Jaybird180]

Okay. I had interpreted your post differently.

 

[MAKG1]

He wasnt sure but said just do it as if its a crosswind keep it at 8 althought a component maybe 10 or 12 wind speed and depending on the wind direction could still be a component of 8 so well see..

Something is bothering me here.

Are you having communications problems with your instructor in other areas?

It sounds like the instructor is a big picture guy and you're a details guy. That's gotta be a challenge.

It's also strange that he didn't just say something like "yeah, I meant a crosswind component."

Of course I could be far off base here.

 

[poadeleted20]

He was like baffled by the question basically said if its off the runway anyhjng off up to 8 don't go kind of find that odd..

Oy. That is hardly appropriate, either as a response or as an explanation of the original endorsement. Really new CFI?

 

[marcoseddi]

We have had other issues I'm going by component as another poster here said the definition is component which I looked up as well.

 

[iRyan]

you can change cfis. you are the customer and you are paying the bills. if i dont go up tonight, i will call you.

 

[poadeleted20]

We have had other issues I'm going by component as another poster here said the definition is component which I looked up as well.

Where'd you look that up? In some FAA regulation, or other FAA publication? And while one person has told you that, you've also had several tell you it's ambiguous and needs clarification. This is one situation where asking for forgiveness rather than permission is not prudent.

 

[alfadog]

We have had other issues I'm going by component as another poster here said the definition is component which I looked up as well.

I've learned that there is no "perfect" CFI; they are people too and you take the good with the not-so-good. You try to find excellence with not too much down side and live with the down side. Like anything else in life. So I am not telling you to change CFI's but he needs to work with you and your personality. Tell him you want him to add the word "component" for your piece of mind and if he cannot get that then maybe it is time for a change.

 

[Ghery]

Clarification is always a good thing. When in doubt, ask. You'll find this useful later on when dealing with ATC as well.

An earlier poster suggested getting comfortable with crosswinds and increasing what you can handle as you go along. I can't agree strongly enough. You never know when it will come in handy. I remember a flight a number of years ago when my wife and I were traveling across the state to KPUW. I had been practicing X-wind landings the week before in the Arrow and coming into KPUW we had strong, squirrely X-winds. Oh, and a Horizon Dash-8 holding short waiting for us to land. No pressure here. Wife in right seat. Crazy winds (a non-pilot family friend had seen us coming over Pullman on final and noted how we appeared to be getting blown around). 2 ATPs grading the landing. I was sure glad I had been working on landings with X-winds in that plane the weekend before. Oh, and I greased it on and made the first exit off the runway. Take THAT, Horizon. This was about a year and a few months after my private check ride.

Bottom line is this - don't sweat the limitation now. I had a limitation not too different when I was just starting out. Your CFI will increase the limit as time progresses, and then you'll increase your own limit further. You might even find X-wind landings fun in the future.