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vkhosid

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Hey guys...

Had a completely random thought just now. There is a presentation (more along the lines of a sales pitch) in my office next week about solar panels for the home. I believe it'll be done by Solar City.

Do you guys have any recent experience regarding this whole thing? The processes? The cost? The benefits? The drawbacks? What's the deal with this whole thing? I've wanted to get something like this for the house for a while now, but some of the info I've managed to scrape up regarding the solar power stuff is pushing me away from it.

My understanding is that you're not necessarily getting a better deal because along with the (albeit cheaper) rates for power, you're paying the company monthly to lease (so I don't actually own anything) the equipment from whatever company I'm doing business with...and the leases generally run in the 20-30 year range. So, although the "energy cost" is less, total cost ends up being about the same, or even more....?

Or is my info outdated and/or flat out wrong?

What say you fine gentlemen?
 
No idea about the leases. As for $ it only works because of subsidies. If you want power not just rate reduction from the panels you need to spend more on batteries and switches.
 
I looked at solar installations for my house a while back, ended up not doing it for a few reasons. But some things I picked up along the way... These are related to actually buying your installation also, not leasing it so some of it may not apply...

1. Learn what the current subsidies are from the feds, your state, county, & city, and the utility. Each entity can have different incentives for you and you can use them all. It brings the cost of solar down to a reasonable amount that can significantly reduce your ROI.
2. Find out what your utility's policies are on two-way power exchange. We have Ameren UE where I live and they had some pretty restrictive policies in place. Basically they give you wholesale rate for your electricity (think $.04 / KwH) and what they give you can only go towards offsetting a future bill and the credit expires after 12 months. So learn what the policies are because that can also affect the all-important ROI.
3. Find out what happens if the grid goes down. Again, locally, Ameren requires that the solar system shut down if the grids goes down. They don't want electricity going through lines while their guys are working on getting the grid back up. That seemed dumb to me since a relay would prevent you from feeding power back into the grid, but it's their policy.
4. The direction your house faces matters. Most solar companies prefer to have a large south-facing area to work with. This generates the most electricity.
5. Keep in mind the condition of your roof. If it needs to be replaced, do it before you get a solar installation. If you replace it afterwards, the solar company has to come out, remove the panels and the brackets holding them to the roof, then you can replace your roof, then they have to come back out and re-install everything. It can cost a couple thousand dollars depending on how big the array is.

For me, unfortunately as much as I would have liked it, the numbers just didn't work out. Simple fact is I don't use enough electricity to make it worthwhile; the solar company I was talking to said it would have been one of their smallest installations ever. But I have a 1-story ranch that's about 1500 square feet and I'm willing to sacrifice some comfort for a lower power bill.

Also, power is cheap in the midwest because we just let the prevailing winds blow all the coal dust to the east coast.
 
I've looked at it a little bit, not the leasing but purchasing the system. From a straight financial view, I don't think it is a great investment, but not horrible either. I figured it would take about 10 years to pay off the cost of the system. That would not be too bad, until I started considering other factors:
-- any maintenance/repairs (I have no idea what those might be)
-- cost to remove/replace if you need to replace your roof for a non-insurance claim. I wouldn't put it on a house with an old roof.
-- how long will you keep your house and if you sell it prior to the 10 year payback, will the solar system increase the value of your house equal to the cost of the solar system (doubtful)
-- the rate your power company pays you for the power you generate (in Colorado, Xcel is trying to reduce by 45% the credit you get for generating power). This could really change the payback.

All of these make me hesitant to jump in and do it. If you want to be "green", I don't think it bad, but from straight dollars view, I'm not sure.
 
There is good information in the above replies. I can't really add anything more other than the leasing part.

I have a 1500 sq ft house. Solar power will lower my monthly bill a little, but I am mostly wanting battery backup power for the times we lose power. Plus I get 468 days of sunlight each year....:lol:

If you lease, the subsidies goes to the owner of the equipment.

I have been studying solar power for my home. Here is a link to why you do not want to lease.

I know someone will chime in and say leasing is a "O" money down deal, but it isn't.

This article is a little long but informative on leasing solar equipment.

http://solarleasedisadvantages.com/

People call me green, but 20 years ago they called me cheap...
 
Makes sense, guys....anyone else with input?
 
I wonder was the cost comparison is for using solar panels to run your ac vs planting shade trees.
 
Keep installing that solar,keep the price of oil falling. How many years until the investment pays off?
 
Each time I checked, photovoltaic only made sense in the long run if:
You get a big subsidy
You amortize over 15 years or more
You don't have to replace your roof for about 20 years
If you assume electric rates are going to rise dramatically
And you get a looong warranty.

On the other hand, if you need a water heater anyway, I recommend getting a solar water heater. Especially if you need a pool heater.
 
Make sure any prices quoted are INSTALLED prices including permits and the switching gear. Make sure that you can install them in your neighborhood. If it's an electric system, what about the storage? Are you going to run it through an inverter or run a DC electric chase through the house? Do you have an electric car? That's the best reason to put up cells, but most places if you have an electric car you can buy off peak at industrial rate, that makes solar a loss from the monetary perspective. Many places you can buy your electricity from a 'green' supplier as well so it's pretty much not even a savings on the 'green end'. The only way solar-electric makes sense in a house is on a new build, high efficiency house designed to use all low Volt DC-LED and a dual buss AC system that has an inverter on an "essentials" bus, and a grid buss for everything else. You also want some way to tie the essentials buss to the main grid bus for feed. This works very well for warm climates.

In cold climates, the real benefit of solar energy is the direct heating function. The commercial water heater panels you see on roofs are very cost effective. These are made most efficient with radiant floor heating.
 
Henning said:
Make sure any prices quoted are INSTALLED prices including permits and the switching gear. Make sure that you can install them in your neighborhood. If it's an electric system, what about the storage? Are you going to run it through an inverter or run a DC electric chase through the house? Do you have an electric car? That's the best reason to put up cells, but most places if you have an electric car you can buy off peak at industrial rate, that makes solar a loss from the monetary perspective. Many places you can buy your electricity from a 'green' supplier as well so it's pretty much not even a savings on the 'green end'. The only way solar-electric makes sense in a house is on a new build, high efficiency house designed to use all low Volt DC-LED and a dual buss AC system that has an inverter on an "essentials" bus, and a grid buss for everything else. You also want some way to tie the essentials buss to the main grid bus for feed. This works very well for warm climates.

In cold climates, the real benefit of solar energy is the direct heating function. The commercial water heater panels you see on roofs are very cost effective. These are made most efficient with radiant floor heating.
Click to expand...

Yup.....:yes:.......;)
 
I can't back it up with a specific citation , but I recall reading that on a per dollar basis, you save more investing in energy savings (insulation, modern appliances, etc) than alternative energy generation at the residential scale. Also, the economics can vary greatly from region to region based on local energy cost and climate.

But go to the presentation and see what they say.
 
Depends on what your energy rate is. How much do you pay per KWh?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Anybody in the fire service get an earful about these?

The question I've been hearing is that if you've got panels up and running and the place catches on fire, how do you stop them from making power?

I don't have an answer, I just keep hearing this come up.

Waiting for nighttime or cloud cover is not a good answer.
 
TheTraveler said:
Anybody in the fire service get an earful about these?

The question I've been hearing is that if you've got panels up and running and the place catches on fire, how do you stop them from making power?

I don't have an answer, I just keep hearing this come up.

Waiting for nighttime or cloud cover is not a good answer.
Click to expand...

Same thing as giving birth........ CUT THE CORD........
 
But that's just it...cut the cord if you want, they are still making power.

If you've got power coming in from the street, sure you can turn the box off or cut the cord.

But a panel that's under the sun and still churning out power? You're going to cut the cord, and then you've still got live power there wherever you cut it, correct?

And if this is true, well...go right ahead, keep spraying water on it!
 
TheTraveler said:
But that's just it...cut the cord if you want, they are still making power.

If you've got power coming in from the street, sure you can turn the box off or cut the cord.

But a panel that's under the sun and still churning out power? You're going to cut the cord, and then you've still got live power there wherever you cut it, correct?

And if this is true, well...go right ahead, keep spraying water on it!
Click to expand...

I can see that there would be a problem with a huge solar array putting out 100 amps or so....:yikes:
 
TheTraveler said:
Anybody in the fire service get an earful about these?

The question I've been hearing is that if you've got panels up and running and the place catches on fire, how do you stop them from making power?

I don't have an answer, I just keep hearing this come up.

Waiting for nighttime or cloud cover is not a good answer.
Click to expand...

Simple, you kick a relay with the fire alarm/smoke detector and have some manual 'call points' that will also disconnect.
 
Henning said:
Simple, you kick a relay with the fire alarm/smoke detector and have some manual 'call points' that will also disconnect.
Click to expand...

Still doesn't stop them from making power, which is the whole problem. Once you place that solar panel in position, if there is light to it, it makes power. Period. There isn't any relay, cable, switch, short circuit, etc. that just "turns it off".

Just heard at NFPA about a situation with a warehouse last October. Full blaze, but they wouldn't touch the thing until the sun went down, and by the time that happened, well...not much worth saving. I think it was in Jersey, but I could be wrong on that.
 
Most residential installations have a shut off that can be accessed from the ground. You still have power being generated by the panels but no power going into the structure. That allows firefighting operations inside ,but not on the roof.
 
TheTraveler said:
Still doesn't stop them from making power, which is the whole problem. Once you place that solar panel in position, if there is light to it, it makes power. Period. There isn't any relay, cable, switch, short circuit, etc. that just "turns it off".

Just heard at NFPA about a situation with a warehouse last October. Full blaze, but they wouldn't touch the thing until the sun went down, and by the time that happened, well...not much worth saving. I think it was in Jersey, but I could be wrong on that.
Click to expand...

You can install shutters if that's what you mean. We built a reflector/hot water system out of a satellite dish for my buddy, used a Mead tracker to have it follow the sun and a thermostat to 'park' it off the sun when temps got to hot.
 
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