Socata TB-20, thoughts?

Asking prices and selling prices are different things. Lets say $145k asking.
I am looking to upgrade in about a year, so I am betting that values come down a bit more.

Spend the extra money and get all you can/what you want now.

1) I wouldn't bet on values being much lower.

2) by the time you get done with purchase costs, inspections, and sales/use taxes, you'll be into it for a LOT of extra money. Doing that all over again in a year will add up to twice as much (plus any haircut you take on the sale of the plane). That alone is probably worth $10K - $15K depending on what state you live in and the value of the plane.
 
Spend the extra money and get all you can/what you want now.

1) I wouldn't bet on values being much lower.

2) by the time you get done with purchase costs, inspections, and sales/use taxes, you'll be into it for a LOT of extra money. Doing that all over again in a year will add up to twice as much (plus any haircut you take on the sale of the plane). That alone is probably worth $10K - $15K depending on what state you live in and the value of the plane.

I was unclear. I am looking at upgrading from my 180 in about a year. I am figuring 6 months to find whatever plane I decide on, equipped right, and priced right.

After that, I don't see any upgrades for a long time, unless business goes nuts and a brand new plane or a FIKI twin become possible.
 
A Debby is a BE35. No difference.

BE33 = Bonanza, the classic V tail
BE35 = originally the Debonair, straight tail Bo. Ended up with the Bonanza name at some point, I believe in the early '70s, and eventually outlasting the BE33 VTail. The F35 was the last in the 4-seater Bonanza series IIRC.
 
You can get a nice Bo for under $145k
 
A Debby is a BE35. No difference.

BE33 = Bonanza, the classic V tail
BE35 = originally the Debonair, straight tail Bo.
Got that backwards. Model 35 (1947-82) is the V-tail, Model 33 (1960-96) is the short-body straight-tail. Model 36 (1968-present) is the long-body straight-tail, still in production.

Ended up with the Bonanza name at some point, I believe in the early '70s, and eventually outlasting the BE33 VTail. The F35 was the last in the 4-seater Bonanza series IIRC.
The question is, why is a similar year Deb cheaper than a similar year and equipped 35?
The Model 33 Debonair was introduced in 1960 as an "economy" version of the Bonanza, intended to compete with the Comanche. The M35 Bonanza that year had 250 hp; the Model 33 Debonair had 225 hp., no cowl flaps, and only one landing/taxi light. The Deb had a much more spartan interior and shorter standard equipment list. Full paint job was an option that first year, and the third side window didn't become standard until the '68 E33 and E33A. Until the early '70s the Model 33's lacked the 35's standard openable (emergency-exit) side windows.

As time went on Debs offered more and more "Bonanza" features until 1968, when the 33s (225 hp E33 and 285 hp E33A) were re-named "Bonanza". But there were still differences aside from the tails.

Finally in 1972 the 225-hp model (then called F33) was discontinued, and the 285-hp F33A became virtually identical to the then-current V-tail V35B - except for the tail. Advertised performance numbers were the same; the F33A's empty weight was 19 pounds more than a similarly-equipped V35B, but it offered a greater CG range.

The V35B was discontinued in 1982; the F33A remained in production until 1996.

So if you compare a Bonanza and a Debonair from the same year of the 1960's, the Bonanza will often be worth more -- higher horsepower, more features. But from the early '70s onward, you might find an F33A to cost more than a contemporary V35B. To some the "stigma" of the V tail makes the F33A preferable, and as I said, the F33A offers a little more flexibility in loading. Otherwise, it's just a matter of what kind of shadow you cast on a sunny day.

True, 33's and 35's are often so heavily modified over the years that any differences from the factory are mitigated.
 
Last edited:
About half of the older 180's have the yokes upside down, presumably for more leg clearance. Just take the bolt out of the shaft (behind the panel) rotate the shaft 180 deg and replace the bolt. The yoke shaft was mounted higher in the panel on the old airplanes, and the yoke was attached at the top so the bottom surface of the yoke was lower than the mount hole by the vertical dimension of the piece.

My earlier post was incorrect. The bottom edge of the yoke is ~7-8" higher than the original configuration, but the net leg clearance is only increased by 3-4". Check the TAP and Barnstormer ads to see how it looks in real life. I'd love to have a 195, have been within an inch of buying one a half-dozen times. If the 180 wasn't such a great airplane, and so much more practical for me, I'd do it in a NYM.


???? You turn the yokes upside down?
Do you know if that's legal, and is it a 180 thing? If you can do that with any plane, then that may change some things :)

Of course the other option is to say the hell with it and just get a 195 :yesnod:
 
I would second the idea that a 250 Comanche with tip tanks is an excellent cross country airplane, especially for the dollars involved. Figure out how to remove the right yoke and raise the right seat if necessary for the wife.

Brian
CFIIG/ASEL
 
I was unclear. I am looking at upgrading from my 180 in about a year. I am figuring 6 months to find whatever plane I decide on, equipped right, and priced right.

After that, I don't see any upgrades for a long time, unless business goes nuts and a brand new plane or a FIKI twin become possible.

Ah, I misunderstood.
 
Got that backwards. Model 35 (1947-82) is the V-tail, Model 33 (1960-96) is the short-body straight-tail. Model 36 (1968-present) is the long-body straight-tail, still in production..

DOH!! That was stupid. I knew that!!
 
...the F33A offers a little more flexibility in loading.
You were right on earlier with the greater CG envelope, but most 33's have an empty CG further aft than a 35. Overall it tends to be a wash.

I've been a Bonanza guy since I was a little kid. The maintenance on mine has been relatively low. (knock on wood)

If you've got 120k right now, you can pick up a screamin deal on a later model Vtail. The later '60s have a good combination of high gross weights and relatively low empty weight.
 
Back
Top