onwards
Pattern Altitude
Found a cute little posting on Craigslist the other day, pursued it with a solid dose of suspicion, turns out it's a scammer as expected. Figured I'd post this here because while many folks have heard of similar things with autos, I think the venturing into the realm of planes is a bit different.
First the original posting text:
"1963 Cessna 172 Skyhawk low time 180 hp
Seats, carpet and headliner are in excellent condition.
Exterior Still in good condition with a few minor chips here & there.
radios #2 Nav Com-
KX 170B w/ VOR
Mark 12D w/ VOR
Narco AT150
Lycoming 360 A1A 180 hp engine
constant speed propeller
SMOH 663
AFTT 4320"
------------
Now the exchange between us. It eventually conforms directly to the classic scam that had been worked to death using eBay Motors:
Email from me to him:
Hello,
I just saw your posting of the 1963 172. Can you provide more
information about the plane, please? (and tail number)
Thanks in advance
His response:
Sorry for the late response but I work in the US Air Force and it's very hard for me to reply faster. I wanted to let you know that the 1963 Cessna 172 Skyhawk is still available, i had a buyer but his loan did not get approved. The final price is $18,000 ,so if you are still interested please let me know ASAP.
Here is a link with more photos: mike-seamon.site40.net/Aircraft.Pictures
The plane was left to me by my father after he passed away last year. At this time the plane is in Olympia, WA in hangar on a private residence ,where my father lived. If you're not able to come pick this up, we can use Amazon Payments service to handle this deal. Let me know if you have any questions, for some reasons your previous email did not load on my screen.
Thank you,
Mike Seamon ,TSgt, USAF
375rd TRS/Det. 11
DSN 251-3397
Nice pics, a bit more info including a tail and serial number (Serial Number 17249660 Tail N2160Y), and a check of records shows it's owned by someone in Florida... anyway, my response:
Mike,
Thank you... a few questions: does the plane have full logs? is it IFR
certified, or has it ever been so? any STC's? when was the 180HP
conversion done, and (if you happen to know), by whom? I see that the
audio panel was never upgraded and there is no GPS, correct?
Best,
B
He came back a day later with:
Hi there again, this 1963 Cessna 172 Skyhawk is in excellent condition, never been involved in any kind of accidents, clean and clear title, no mechanical problems, no rust, no leaks, power options all functional and it will need nothing in the near future. I'm the owner of the aircraft but i don't really know the technical details, i'm not a pilot and i never used it, I inherited it from my father who took great care of this aircraft. It is a IFR certified ,constant speed propeller.
All the details that i have from the Cessna you can find here: mike-seamon.site40.net/Aircraft.Pictures/Aircraft_description
I want to sell it because I don't have use for it and I could use some quick cash right now, rather than waiting for a better offer (selling takes a lot of time too... and time is money). So I'm willing to let it go for $18,000 , First come, First served.
We are in a dgt training mission here in Montana until 10th of November and i can't meet you to do the deal in person, but I have some great news for you.The shipping will take 7-10 days thru uShip and it will be free anywhere in USA, my previous buyer already paid for it and uShip didn't want to refund him so I have the aircraft sealed at a local shipping company that work with uShip, ready to be shipped out. If we cannot meet face2face I would like to use Amazon Payments purchase protection to take care of this deal, smooth and safe.
Let me know if you have any other questions, hope i didn't miss anything, if we use Amazon Payments program this is not a sight unseen deal anymore.
Thank you,
Mike Seamon ,TSgt, USAF
375rd TRS/Det. 11
DSN 251-3397
So now it's at a shipper's right? pretty certain it's a scammer by now, but why not, let's play this game a bit longer. I wonder if I could get a phone number from him. Note that I actually fully expect him to write back after I send the following note.
Mike,
Understood, although that the plane is packed and ready to ship poses
a challenge; there is no way to inspect it, and if I understand
correctly, you do not have any logs (or am I wrong?). For these
reasons, I will pass. Good luck with the sale.
Thank you again,
B
And not surprisingly, he does:
i have the logs and all the paper.I can meet with you after 10th of November when i will finish my dgt training mission , but if i will have another buyer that will accept to finish the deal online i will sell it.So you can contact me in November and if i will have the aircraft available we can fix a appointment and make the deal. I have a good price for the plane and hope that i will sell it fast, as i need urgent some money to renovate my wife restaurant.
Thank you,
Mike Seamon ,TSgt, USAF
375rd TRS/Det. 11
DSN 251-3397
Yeah, OK. I like the time pressure thing, good sales tactic. So I say:
Mike,
Alright, that's different. I don't suppose you have the logs scanned
so I can browse through them, then? are they for the entire life of
the plane, or only from a certain point? also, when is the IFR
certification due? can I see the last annual?
I've never used Amazon Payments - seems like Paypal - but it seems
like an expensive way of doing things... I can wire you the funds,
which is safer, faster in terms of having funds available for use, and
cheaper. I don't need a loan.
B
Of course, if he suddenly pops up with account numbers and all that, I'd be absolutely stunned - but at that point, I'd have a real steal on my hands, too. Not bloody likely. And... here we go:
Hi B, The aircraft is sealed in a container and ready to be shipped,the wings has been removed and will be mounted at the destination by a certified mechanic.
We are in a mission in Montana until 10th of November and i can't meet you to do the deal in person. That's why I insist to use Amazon Payments for this deal and not send the money directly to me. You will have 5 days for inspection in this time you can check everything about the aircraft and papers, and if the aircraft have some problems or is not as i told you, you can ask for refund and you will receive your money back and me, i will need to pay for the shipping back, but don't worry the Cessna is in perfect condition.
Here is how it works if you have never used Amazon Payments purchase protection program.
You send me your full name and your shipping address so I can initiate the transaction on Amazon Payments .They contacts you with further details regarding the payment and shipping process. You submit the payment to them, Amazon Payments confirms the payment and asks me to release the shipment. I ship the aircraft which should be at your door within the next 5-10 business days(i will tell you exactlly when i will have your adddress,the shipping is free).You have a 5 days inspection period before you confirm the
deal and Amazon Payments forwards the payment to me or you cancel the deal and you get your money back and return the aircraft free of charge.
Basicaly Amazon Payments holds your money safe until you confirm that the aircraft is what you have expected and you want to buy it. It is not a sight unseen deal.
On the other hand I can ship the aircraft knowing Amazon Payments has your money and you wont dissapear with my aircraft.We are both covered.
Sorry for the long emails I have tried to touch all bases.My phone number is : (407) 992-8215
Thank you,
Mike Seamon ,TSgt, USAF
375rd TRS/Det. 11
DSN 251-3397
Got the number. I'm certain he will pick up if I call. I'm a little tired of the game by now, so I end things with:
Hmm. I will be ceasing communications at this point; I do believe that
you are a scammer. On the remote chance that I am wrong, then I
apologize, but I will require the full logs, most recent annual and
IFR certification for the aircraft scanned and emailed to me before
anything else happens. If I'm right, I do hope nobody falls into the
trap, but I'm sure somebody (or even more than one person) will. I
certainly will post this warning where I can.
The phone is registered to a landline in Orlando, FL, at Palm Bay in Brevard County. I'm tempted to pay the $2 to find out his name, but anyway, here goes. If this thread helps anyone avoid this sort of trap in the future, I'm happy.
First the original posting text:
"1963 Cessna 172 Skyhawk low time 180 hp
Seats, carpet and headliner are in excellent condition.
Exterior Still in good condition with a few minor chips here & there.
radios #2 Nav Com-
KX 170B w/ VOR
Mark 12D w/ VOR
Narco AT150
Lycoming 360 A1A 180 hp engine
constant speed propeller
SMOH 663
AFTT 4320"
------------
Now the exchange between us. It eventually conforms directly to the classic scam that had been worked to death using eBay Motors:
Email from me to him:
Hello,
I just saw your posting of the 1963 172. Can you provide more
information about the plane, please? (and tail number)
Thanks in advance
His response:
Sorry for the late response but I work in the US Air Force and it's very hard for me to reply faster. I wanted to let you know that the 1963 Cessna 172 Skyhawk is still available, i had a buyer but his loan did not get approved. The final price is $18,000 ,so if you are still interested please let me know ASAP.
Here is a link with more photos: mike-seamon.site40.net/Aircraft.Pictures
The plane was left to me by my father after he passed away last year. At this time the plane is in Olympia, WA in hangar on a private residence ,where my father lived. If you're not able to come pick this up, we can use Amazon Payments service to handle this deal. Let me know if you have any questions, for some reasons your previous email did not load on my screen.
Thank you,
Mike Seamon ,TSgt, USAF
375rd TRS/Det. 11
DSN 251-3397
Nice pics, a bit more info including a tail and serial number (Serial Number 17249660 Tail N2160Y), and a check of records shows it's owned by someone in Florida... anyway, my response:
Mike,
Thank you... a few questions: does the plane have full logs? is it IFR
certified, or has it ever been so? any STC's? when was the 180HP
conversion done, and (if you happen to know), by whom? I see that the
audio panel was never upgraded and there is no GPS, correct?
Best,
B
He came back a day later with:
Hi there again, this 1963 Cessna 172 Skyhawk is in excellent condition, never been involved in any kind of accidents, clean and clear title, no mechanical problems, no rust, no leaks, power options all functional and it will need nothing in the near future. I'm the owner of the aircraft but i don't really know the technical details, i'm not a pilot and i never used it, I inherited it from my father who took great care of this aircraft. It is a IFR certified ,constant speed propeller.
All the details that i have from the Cessna you can find here: mike-seamon.site40.net/Aircraft.Pictures/Aircraft_description
I want to sell it because I don't have use for it and I could use some quick cash right now, rather than waiting for a better offer (selling takes a lot of time too... and time is money). So I'm willing to let it go for $18,000 , First come, First served.
We are in a dgt training mission here in Montana until 10th of November and i can't meet you to do the deal in person, but I have some great news for you.The shipping will take 7-10 days thru uShip and it will be free anywhere in USA, my previous buyer already paid for it and uShip didn't want to refund him so I have the aircraft sealed at a local shipping company that work with uShip, ready to be shipped out. If we cannot meet face2face I would like to use Amazon Payments purchase protection to take care of this deal, smooth and safe.
Let me know if you have any other questions, hope i didn't miss anything, if we use Amazon Payments program this is not a sight unseen deal anymore.
Thank you,
Mike Seamon ,TSgt, USAF
375rd TRS/Det. 11
DSN 251-3397
So now it's at a shipper's right? pretty certain it's a scammer by now, but why not, let's play this game a bit longer. I wonder if I could get a phone number from him. Note that I actually fully expect him to write back after I send the following note.
Mike,
Understood, although that the plane is packed and ready to ship poses
a challenge; there is no way to inspect it, and if I understand
correctly, you do not have any logs (or am I wrong?). For these
reasons, I will pass. Good luck with the sale.
Thank you again,
B
And not surprisingly, he does:
i have the logs and all the paper.I can meet with you after 10th of November when i will finish my dgt training mission , but if i will have another buyer that will accept to finish the deal online i will sell it.So you can contact me in November and if i will have the aircraft available we can fix a appointment and make the deal. I have a good price for the plane and hope that i will sell it fast, as i need urgent some money to renovate my wife restaurant.
Thank you,
Mike Seamon ,TSgt, USAF
375rd TRS/Det. 11
DSN 251-3397
Yeah, OK. I like the time pressure thing, good sales tactic. So I say:
Mike,
Alright, that's different. I don't suppose you have the logs scanned
so I can browse through them, then? are they for the entire life of
the plane, or only from a certain point? also, when is the IFR
certification due? can I see the last annual?
I've never used Amazon Payments - seems like Paypal - but it seems
like an expensive way of doing things... I can wire you the funds,
which is safer, faster in terms of having funds available for use, and
cheaper. I don't need a loan.
B
Of course, if he suddenly pops up with account numbers and all that, I'd be absolutely stunned - but at that point, I'd have a real steal on my hands, too. Not bloody likely. And... here we go:
Hi B, The aircraft is sealed in a container and ready to be shipped,the wings has been removed and will be mounted at the destination by a certified mechanic.
We are in a mission in Montana until 10th of November and i can't meet you to do the deal in person. That's why I insist to use Amazon Payments for this deal and not send the money directly to me. You will have 5 days for inspection in this time you can check everything about the aircraft and papers, and if the aircraft have some problems or is not as i told you, you can ask for refund and you will receive your money back and me, i will need to pay for the shipping back, but don't worry the Cessna is in perfect condition.
Here is how it works if you have never used Amazon Payments purchase protection program.
You send me your full name and your shipping address so I can initiate the transaction on Amazon Payments .They contacts you with further details regarding the payment and shipping process. You submit the payment to them, Amazon Payments confirms the payment and asks me to release the shipment. I ship the aircraft which should be at your door within the next 5-10 business days(i will tell you exactlly when i will have your adddress,the shipping is free).You have a 5 days inspection period before you confirm the
deal and Amazon Payments forwards the payment to me or you cancel the deal and you get your money back and return the aircraft free of charge.
Basicaly Amazon Payments holds your money safe until you confirm that the aircraft is what you have expected and you want to buy it. It is not a sight unseen deal.
On the other hand I can ship the aircraft knowing Amazon Payments has your money and you wont dissapear with my aircraft.We are both covered.
Sorry for the long emails I have tried to touch all bases.My phone number is : (407) 992-8215
Thank you,
Mike Seamon ,TSgt, USAF
375rd TRS/Det. 11
DSN 251-3397
Got the number. I'm certain he will pick up if I call. I'm a little tired of the game by now, so I end things with:
Hmm. I will be ceasing communications at this point; I do believe that
you are a scammer. On the remote chance that I am wrong, then I
apologize, but I will require the full logs, most recent annual and
IFR certification for the aircraft scanned and emailed to me before
anything else happens. If I'm right, I do hope nobody falls into the
trap, but I'm sure somebody (or even more than one person) will. I
certainly will post this warning where I can.
The phone is registered to a landline in Orlando, FL, at Palm Bay in Brevard County. I'm tempted to pay the $2 to find out his name, but anyway, here goes. If this thread helps anyone avoid this sort of trap in the future, I'm happy.
