So that's why we practice no-flap landings!

jpower

jpower

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James
I'm a pretty low-time pilot (120-130 ish hours), and I had my first in-flight issue today--a flaps failure. Some of you are definitely saying to yourselves, "psh, what's the big deal about a no-flap landing?" Well, nothing really. Just that it's out of the ordinary and I learned from it, so I figured I'd share.

I had just come back from doing a little sightseeing in a 172P, and I figured I'd shoot a few touch and goes just for the fun of it. When I was on base for my full stop, I could tell that something wasn't right with the approach. I looked around and saw that my flaps weren't down at all! By this time I was about to turn final, and I didn't want to mess with things, so I flipped the switch back to "up" and made a greaser of a no-flap landing. When I taxied off, I tried the flaps again, and they started coming down with no issues. Weird!

A couple of takeaways:

First, when I started processing the chain of events, I couldn't figure out how I didn't notice that the flaps weren't coming out, because there's usually a noticeable change in pitch. It wasn't perfectly smooth, so I must have subconsciously chalked up the lack of a pitch change to turbulence. I'm also not in the habit of visually confirming the flap position either with the indicator or with a glance at the wings. I'm definitely going to be paying more attention to that.

Secondly, and more importantly, I'm happy that I'd done plenty of no-flap landings before, including one in this particular airplane during my checkout. It really is a non-event, but the extra speed and different sight picture could catch you off guard if you didn't know what to expect. Also, this particular airplane has a very aggressive cruise prop, so it floats and floats and floats. I was ready for it and made sure to be slow enough over the numbers.

An instructor and a student took the plane out when I got back, so I'd be interested to see whether they have any issues. The mechanic wasn't on site, but he's going to check it out later tonight. He suspects that it was the flap indicator getting stuck, because apparently that can actually cause the flaps from moving? We'll see.
 
Good job, it's odd when you hear that some students never did that before solo though, glad your CFI wasn't part of that demographic

IMO before solo all students should practice:

Zero flap (if flap equipped) landings, headwind and tailwind

Falling leaf stalls, full aft stick

3+ rotation spins, if certified

Soft field landings on a real soft field (not a big deal)

Proper runups
 
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You did the right thing by putting the switch back to the "up" position before continuing.

Rich
 
This is why I don't like mechanical flaps and trim. They aren't failure proof but I trust them more.

I know when I did training we did all flap configuration landings.

Carl
 
'even a bit trickier with CTsw, which has -6 flaps for cruising (-12 in Europe). But the CT does a good job of handling -6 with landings and take-offs.
 
when i was doing doing my PPL training i went up with my dad who is also a CFI and did some manuevers and touch and gos. after coming back from KBDR and doing touch and gos we headed back to KFRG to finish up. the flaps worked fine at bridgeport but crapped out when we started approaching farmingdale. this soon became a regular occurence with my CFI's plane so i had alot of experience with no flap landings. its also the reason why i decided to change flight schools. A + instruction but F grade planes.
 
I had the opposite. Did a stop and go and they stayed at 40.

I was very glad to have an 8000' runway and the presence of mind to put it back on the ground.

Reminded me why you always look out the side window at Cessna electric flaps and confirm them the stupid simple way every takeoff.

They worked perfectly and checked out perfectly after this event, of course.
 
When you get surprised like that - I'd take it around and go someplace and try to sort it out . . . then come back and land no-flap. Then you at least know what you have instead of being surprised. . .. .
 
I had something like this happen in my old C150 a few years ago. I landed with full flaps, and after exiting the runway, they didn't retract. The fuse gave up the ghost on final, easy fix, but glad I didn't have to do a go-around. Full flap C150 climb is a joke, more like perfect slow flight at full throttle...
 
Love that big manual 40 degree lever on the floor of mine. It's like a brake lever.

There's no mistaking what's going on ...

Good recovery OP!
 
comanchepilot said:
When you get surprised like that - I'd take it around and go someplace and try to sort it out . . . then come back and land no-flap. Then you at least know what you have instead of being surprised. . .. .
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I would recommend NOT screwing with it, particularly in a flaps 40 172. I'd much rather have them stuck up than down as landing without flaps is easy, going around with flaps full down may not be possible.
 
Even More Important in a Cirrus!!!

Practicing no flap landings is even more important in planes like the Cirrus, in which a "too slow" nose-up flare can cause a tail strike (yet another reason the Cirrus is a challenging plane to fly!).
 
Skylane81E said:
I would recommend NOT screwing with it, particularly in a flaps 40 172. I'd much rather have them stuck up than down as landing without flaps is easy, going around with flaps full down may not be possible.
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we are talking no-flap in this thread - not flap-stuck-down. When we get to that thread, I might have a different opinion . . . .which is why when you are doing a T&G you should NOT be using flaps 40 because if they stay down you are in a world of hurt. But then such defeats the purpose of landing practice since you are supposed to be practicing normal landings and then the transitions.
 
comanchepilot said:
we are talking no-flap in this thread - not flap-stuck-down. When we get to that thread, I might have a different opinion . . . .which is why when you are doing a T&G you should NOT be using flaps 40 because if they stay down you are in a world of hurt. But then such defeats the purpose of landing practice since you are supposed to be practicing normal landings and then the transitions.
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I think what Skylane was saying was If you get away from landing and start fiddling with your flaps you might go from having them stuck up to stuck full down. Whatever caused them to stick up could also cause a problem when down.
 
48dodge said:
I think what Skylane was saying was If you get away from landing and start fiddling with your flaps you might go from having them stuck up to stuck full down. Whatever caused them to stick up could also cause a problem when down.
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not how I understood it [obviously] but ok - fair enough
 
Re: Even More Important in a Cirrus!!!

VWGhiaBob said:
Practicing no flap landings is even more important in planes like the Cirrus, in which a "too slow" nose-up flare can cause a tail strike (yet another reason the Cirrus is a challenging plane to fly!).
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Or if you need a real challenge, try a no-flap landing in a Mooney or a Diamond -- guaranteed to keep you humble. :yikes::hairraise:
 
comanchepilot said:
When you get surprised like that - I'd take it around and go someplace and try to sort it out . . . then come back and land no-flap. Then you at least know what you have instead of being surprised. . .. .
Click to expand...

Skylane81E said:
I would recommend NOT screwing with it, particularly in a flaps 40 172. I'd much rather have them stuck up than down as landing without flaps is easy, going around with flaps full down may not be possible.
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This was in a 172 with 30* of flaps. But it didn't really "surprise" me. I looked over and said "huh, the flaps aren't down. I guess I'll do a no-flap landing." Instead of my instructor telling me that my flaps had failed, my eyes did, and from there, everything was routine.
 
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