so ready to quit

flhrci said:
I was actually curious through all of this if you needed a little time off from it. Seemed like you were flying nearly daily.

A couple days off may help.

David
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well I am definitely "flying often", which I've always heard is the recommendation (and with my flexible work schedule is doable). between that and being moderately coordinated, I think that is leading to my aggravation for not nailing this sooner. but I'm not scheduled until Saturday eve, so we'll see what happens then.
 
Jthamilton said:
When I hear ''slamming'', first thing that comes to mind is airspeed has decayed to point of where the plane no longer wants to fly and the aircraft is too high.

I'm no instructor but I also trained in Cherokee and owned a cherokee 6/300 for around 250 hours flying time. Keep trying!
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It could mean that. It could also mean flying it into the runway (nosegear or flat landing). It's important to figure out which, as the two meanings have opposite resolutions.
 
Jthamilton said:
When I hear ''slamming'', first thing that comes to mind is airspeed has decayed to point of where the plane no longer wants to fly and the aircraft is too high.

I'm no instructor but I also trained in Cherokee and owned a cherokee 6/300 for around 250 hours flying time. Keep trying!
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It could also be that the "slamming" is caused by pulling the nose just a little too high to keep from landing on it. Is it possible that the OP should try nursing the yoke back just slightly more gently?
You are getting closer and a little more finessing will get you there.
 
MAKG1 said:
It could mean that. It could also mean flying it into the runway (nosegear or flat landing). It's important to figure out which, as the two meanings have opposite resolutions.
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after watching my own videos, it really was minor slamming, but as I stated in the original post, it was ALL on the mains, never nosewheel first.
 
eman1200 said:
well I am definitely "flying often", which I've always heard is the recommendation (and with my flexible work schedule is doable). between that and being moderately coordinated, I think that is leading to my aggravation for not nailing this sooner. but I'm not scheduled until Saturday eve, so we'll see what happens then.
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I had to take a month off for work travel shortly after I soloed. The difference when I came back was amazing. While you're away your brain and subconscious is processing everything you've learned up to now and gets a chance to digest it. Take a week off, go do something else, try not to put so much effort (ie...brain power) into flying. Then come back with a fresh mind and try again. I think you'll surprise yourself at how well you do. :)
 
eman1200 said:
I'm giving it one last try tomorrow morning. roundout and flare will be the reason I quit. or, should I say, going round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round in the pattern, nailing every single aspect of the pattern over and over and over and over and over and over, EXCEPT for the mother bleeping roundout and flare, NEVER getting better at it at all, will simply drive me to drink. don't get me wrong, I haven't done anything dangerous, I just haven't improved at all or made one good solid landing. not acceptable to me to do something over and over, at great expense, and not get better.

frustrating.
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Don't worry after 63 hours I still have that problem the only problem as a Senior Citizen ! But guess what Failure is not an "Option" nor quitting is an Option ! I just intend to nail it , By the way does any one know if there are any landing clinics in the U.S. preferablely on the west coast ?
 
Aviator1945 said:
Don't worry after 63 hours I still have that problem the only problem as a Senior Citizen ! But guess what Failure is not an "Option" nor quitting is an Option ! I just intend to nail it , By the way does any one know if there are any landing clinics in the U.S. preferablely on the west coast ?
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As a matter of fact, Dan Dyer runs a crosswind landing simulator out of KSQL (San Carlos Flight Center).

I've never used it, though I've seen it. But he advertises it heavily. It's not the motion type, but has a fairly modern large screen display.

RIGHT next door is the Hiller Aviation Museum, which has a BATD and a small set of instructors on hand, and might be helpful if less formal and significantly cheaper. But that's weekends only.

I question whether a simulator is the best way to do this sort of thing, as the sight pictures are not likely to be right. But they do let you separate variables.
 
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I was having problems with Floating and then dropping down at times. Then I realized it was from the tac being on the right side of the panel and I was looking at it with a parallax view . So when I was setting my configurations , I was slightly over the recommended RPM settings and made my airspeed just enough faster that is was screwing me up ...
 
Huh?

The "recommended" RPM is just that -- a recommendation. Set it for what you need to hit your target, not what someone else tells you it should be. It's going to differ according to altitude, load, CG, temperature, the number of dead bugs on your leading edges, and a bunch of other variables.

The POH does not contain such a recommendation, for good reason. With one exception -- short field landings are done with the throttle all the way out.

Once I'm stabilized on approach below 100 AGL, I don't look at ANYTHING in the airplane.
 
greghughes said:
LOOK ALL THE WAY DOWN AT THE END OF THE RUNWAY

And some time with a different instructor, just to break patterns and get a different perspective, is always a good idea.
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Exactly the two things I did, one purely by accident.

I was flaring to high, floating then coming down pretty hard, and it was REALLY getting to me :mad2:, because it started happening as I was getting ready to solo, then obviously couldn't.
One weekend my primary instructor was sick so I flew with another guy, who had a totally different approach to instruction, not better just different.
He was the one who got me to look at the end of the runway and apply nose up trim to relive how much back pressure I had to use in the flare, worked like a charm. My landings got much better, and more consistent, there where still some controlled impacts with the ground as my instructors called them, but they got good enough to let me go on my own. Of course then I just had to figure out that pesky cross wind thing:(

They still think I flare higher than I need to but I've trained my eyes to that height and I can now control the float and speed to make the touch down smooth.

Bottom line, Problem, I was too high, too fast, looking at the wrong place, and controlling the flare.
Fix. Slower, better trim use, looking at the end of the runway once over the numbers and using two instructor's got it done eventually.

Stick with it, you will get it
 
MAKG1 said:
Huh?

The "recommended" RPM is just that -- a recommendation. Set it for what you need to hit your target, not what someone else tells you it should be. It's going to differ according to altitude, load, CG, temperature, the number of dead bugs on your leading edges, and a bunch of other variables.

The POH does not contain such a recommendation, for good reason. With one exception -- short field landings are done with the throttle all the way out.

Once I'm stabilized on approach below 100 AGL, I don't look at ANYTHING in the airplane.
Click to expand...

When the owner of the plane knows the ins and outs of the plane , and says that something works best , and offers it as advise , and it works .......... just sayin
 
Landing is one of the most action-packed parts of flying. In cruise, you're just sitting there... at some point, getting ready for the approach and landing. It's almost like flying is a build-up for landing.

I think every pilot judges their landings (and passengers do too). If it was easy, we'd do it perfectly every time, and it probably wouldn't be as much fun. Instead, sometimes we plunk it down a little, sometimes we side load a little... and sometimes, the magic aligns, and we land without hardly feeling or hearing a thing.

The point is; it's a challenge that you will eventually come to enjoy.

I was so down on myself... it seemed like everyone I went through ground school with had landings down pat, and I struggled; over, and over, and over, repeat. I just didn't have it. I asked my instructor if I was cut out for this "flying stuff", and luckily, he said yes, just stick with it, I was almost there... and I was, and what seems like a very short time later I could do it consistently.

Be patient, fly over the runway 3 feet over it as long as you can with no power (like others have said). It's a comfort thing, and knowing you can fly it so close to the ground without hitting it. When you feel more comfortable, your arm will go more smoothly when you flare, allowing yourself to fly really low, and hold it off as long as possible.

This part will seem like it took two weeks a few years from now.
 
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eman1200 said:
I dunno, trust me people of PoA, I am listening to everything you have to say, I just haven't been able to apply it in this case.
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Not to worry, it will come. I actually arrived at home after a lesson and told my wife it is impossible for anyone, under any circumstance, to land an airplane.

Clearly I was wrong!!!

It will come. Just a few more times around the pattern, and I second the advice to try another instructor.

-Skip
 

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From a sign at a local grass strip:

"Take off and flying lessons: $50.00"

And just below it

"Landing lessons: $8,650.00"
 
AggieMike88 said:
From a sign at a local grass strip:

"Take off and flying lessons: $50.00"

And just below it

"Landing lessons: $8,650.00"
Click to expand...

Lol, that's about it isn't it, although the price of landing has gone up over the last 20 years.
 
cavmedic said:
When the owner of the plane knows the ins and outs of the plane , and says that something works best , and offers it as advise , and it works .......... just sayin
Click to expand...

Is the owner intimately familiar with your weight (and the instructor if dual)? How about the wind at that particular instant? How about the flap setting you chose and when you made the changes. How about how well coordinated you fly, thermals on final, etc.?

You don't ALWAYS set the RPM to 1500 if you want to make a spot landing. You set it to what you need to to make your target. If it's 200 RPM more or less, that's just what it is.

Set for performance, not the other way around, and your approaches and landings will go a whole lot better.
 
My 2 cents for what it's worth.

Eventually it will click. I'm sure I posted it in one of my rants but on one of my landings pre solo my CFII said "something" that made it click. Not sure what it was he said anymore. But after I greased it on I said "Oh like that?" He said "Yup". Then I turned to him and repeated what he said on short final - that made it click and he just laughed..."100 landings and yes that was the first time I said it to you" Sometimes you just have to be in the right frame of mind to really hear your CFII advice to you. You may think you heard it 100 times already but you never now. When I took the checkride last April the DPE said I had more then he has (yes I have ALOT of landings logged)

Now after my CFII do our instrument training I come in and do a landing for the fun of it...sort of a reward to myself proving I know how to land. :) You'll get it eman! PM if you want more info on my struggles. Oy!
 
saracelica said:
My 2 cents for what it's worth.

Eventually it will click. I'm sure I posted it in one of my rants but on one of my landings pre solo my CFII said "something" that made it click. Not sure what it was he said anymore. But after I greased it on I said "Oh like that?" He said "Yup". Then I turned to him and repeated what he said on short final - that made it click and he just laughed..."100 landings and yes that was the first time I said it to you" Sometimes you just have to be in the right frame of mind to really hear your CFII advice to you. You may think you heard it 100 times already but you never now. When I took the checkride last April the DPE said I had more then he has (yes I have ALOT of landings logged)

Now after my CFII do our instrument training I come in and do a landing for the fun of it...sort of a reward to myself proving I know how to land. :) You'll get it eman! PM if you want more info on my struggles. Oy!
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lol, thanks sara! I think part of my aggravation or confusion was.....do I need perfect landings in order to solo, and if I do, this might take a while. but I'm scheduled for Saturday evening, weather permitting I think it could be the day! :)
 
cavmedic said:
When the owner of the plane knows the ins and outs of the plane , and says that something works best , and offers it as advise , and it works .......... just sayin
Click to expand...

That's cool. You want to set some starting point for your approach pattern and you were not setting the recommended rpm. Myself, in the 172 and the Luscombe, I just pull the power abeam the numbers. In my Arrow, I set full rpm, and about 16" MP. In all of them I play a little game. Once I turn final, add flaps as desired and get my speed right (which all takes about 10 sec), I make one and only one power adjustment and win my little game if that carries me on speed to my aim point.
 
You need consistently safe landings to solo. That's a lower bar than perfect, although inadequate precision can be a barrier to consistent safety.

If you're having trouble with landings in the late afternoon or early evening, an early morning time might be a better time to learn (though once you get it down, you'll want to master the more difficult late afternoon time). It's a lot easier to nail a landing when thermals aren't blowing you all over the place.
 
Nothing wrong with a "positive" arrival.


You can add me to the "don't flare" group, just hold it off the runway until you can't any longer. That will put you in the correct nose high attitude and on the ground at the slowest speed.
 
eman1200 said:
I'm giving it one last try tomorrow morning. roundout and flare will be the reason I quit. or, should I say, going round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round in the pattern, nailing every single aspect of the pattern over and over and over and over and over and over, EXCEPT for the mother bleeping roundout and flare, NEVER getting better at it at all, will simply drive me to drink. don't get me wrong, I haven't done anything dangerous, I just haven't improved at all or made one good solid landing. not acceptable to me to do something over and over, at great expense, and not get better.

frustrating.
Click to expand...


Yes, it's frustrating. Just remember that nobody ever failed to learn to fly, some quit first. It is something that I think almost everyone can do, it's a matter of persistence.

With that - you're obviously tired of it going on. Talk to your instructor about it, talk to other instructors about it, get a camera and tape your landings, the be brutal with the analysis on the ground. There is something in there that is throwing you off and once you find it, this will probably magically start working.

Keep at it...
 
Skylane81E said:
Nothing wrong with a "positive" arrival.
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Absolutely, there isn't.

As long as you land on the mains with little to no side-load, a modestly firm "thump" is fine. The mains can take much more punishment than you might think. The nosegear less so.

Unless you're asked by an examiner (or a rough field) for a soft field landing. But that can come later.

I prefer to do that with gusty winds, as I really don't like spending a lot of time inches above the ground while getting blown around.
 
MAKG1 said:
Absolutely, there isn't.

As long as you land on the mains with little to no side-load, a modestly firm "thump" is fine. The mains can take much more punishment than you might think. The nosegear less so.

Unless you're asked by an examiner (or a rough field) for a soft field landing. But that can come later.

I prefer to do that with gusty winds, as I really don't like spending a lot of time inches above the ground while getting blown around.
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Yep, more often than not arriving with a thump is better
 
bflynn said:
Yes, it's frustrating. Just remember that nobody ever failed to learn to fly, some quit first. It is something that I think almost everyone can do, it's a matter of persistence.

With that - you're obviously tired of it going on. Talk to your instructor about it, talk to other instructors about it, get a camera and tape your landings, the be brutal with the analysis on the ground. There is something in there that is throwing you off and once you find it, this will probably magically start working.

Keep at it...
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thanks Brian. I got a couple of the landings on video, I don't think they were that horrible after watching them.
 
MAKG1 said:
As a matter of fact, Dan Dyer runs a crosswind landing simulator out of KSQL (San Carlos Flight Center).

I've never used it, though I've seen it. But he advertises it heavily. It's not the motion type, but has a fairly modern large screen display.

RIGHT next door is the Hiller Aviation Museum, which has a BATD and a small set of instructors on hand, and might be helpful if less formal and significantly cheaper. But that's weekends only.

I question whether a simulator is the best way to do this sort of thing, as the sight pictures are not likely to be right. But they do let you separate variables.
Click to expand...
I have met Dan Dyer through the Fly out Group I have a full fledged Flight Simulator at home with pedals, I think I got in trouble in the first place by using it for "hours and hours" before I started the flight training it took me a while to stop looking at the instruments and look outside I think at this time the best thing for me is just to go out and practice with my instructor.
 
That may very well be. But it is a bit different with an instructor present.

Might I suggest going out with a different instructor? Sometimes the change in perspective alone can make a difference.
 
Alright, You've gotten enough good advice.

Now here's the kick in the ass...

Go figure it out, or your callsign will be "Washout", forever.

;) ;) ;)

You're over-thinking it. Once you can land safely (not perfectly) you'll solo.

Putting too much emphasis on solo is a common problem amongst pilots. Stop worrying about it and go up just to learn all you can about being a pilot. It's a lot more than just soloing around the pattern.

Just remind yourself, the goal is not to solo. The goal is to become a pilot. ;)
 
denverpilot said:
Alright, You've gotten enough good advice.

Now here's the kick in the ass...

Go figure it out, or your callsign will be "Washout", forever.

;) ;) ;)

You're over-thinking it. Once you can land safely (not perfectly) you'll solo.

Putting too much emphasis on solo is a common problem amongst pilots. Stop worrying about it and go up just to learn all you can about being a pilot. It's a lot more than just soloing around the pattern.

Just remind yourself, the goal is not to solo. The goal is to become a pilot. ;)
Click to expand...

totally agree. scheduled for 17:30 this evening, wx dependent.
 
AggieMike88 said:
Holy Jon Cryer reference, Nathan!
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Accidental, I promise. I had to go look up who that is. (The geeky dude on Two And A Half Men...).

No clue what I accidentally referenced from him, though.

I do think it funny to make fun of his acting cohort's "Winning!" interview from time to time, though. ;)
 
denverpilot said:
Accidental, I promise. I had to go look up who that is. (The geeky dude on Two And A Half Men...).

No clue what I accidentally referenced from him, though.

I do think it funny to make fun of his acting cohort's "Winning!" interview from time to time, though. ;)
Click to expand...

Add the Hotshots movie to your search parameters and you'll get my reference.
 
Sometimes what th "POH" says isn't right for "training ".

The 'O" is for "operator', as in one who already knows how to operate. He would know that the POH speeds are for normal operations and can be adjusted for a wide variety of reasons.
For example, most GA aircraft publish all speeds at full gross weight .

For that reason alone , most published speeds are too fast unless you are loaded.

Slow it down as has been advised. Find the speed you need based on your actual weight and technique .
 
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