Smoke In The Cabin

Geico266

Geico266

Touchdown! Greaser!
Joined
Jun 15, 2008
Messages
19,136
Location
Husker Nation, NE
Display Name
Geico
Home Airfield
KCEK
Had an interesting and unexpected "event" flying Sunday. I was on the return leg from dropping my grand daughter off, and I was about 3 miles west of the pattern of my home drome. Flying VFR I had my head out of the cabin looking for traffic when I smelled "the magic smoke". :eek:(I call it the magic smoke because it stays inside electrical stuff until something magical (bad) happens.)

I looked down at the panel to see a voltage warning spiking at 20+ volts. (Talking to the vendors the actual voltage spike was well over 30 volts.:eek:) I immediately shut down the master as the smell intensified. I was now in the pattern to land so I concentrated on "aviate" portion of flying. The landing was a little long, but I was on the ground. Back up flight instruments are a beautiful thing! :D

I started pulling components out and the damage seems to be contained to the boxes in the panel. Wiring seems fine as I can power up all of the rest of the components now without breakers popping. Nothing else burnt or browned. The alternator I thought was a Plane Power (over voltage protection built in) wasn't so that is on order.

Damage so far....

Dual Chelton EFIS system
Garmin SL-30 radio
*Wheelan strobe power box
TruTrac auto pilot
Electronics International engine monitor
*New alternator

* must be replaced, the rest of the stuff is repairable, I hope. :yes:

I shipped everything off to the repair facilities yesterday so the final cost is still undetermined, estimate are $2K to $10K. If the Cheltons are toast I will upgrade the panel to new touch screen Garmins with ADSB!

An out of control alternator had not been on my "things to train for" list. I was a little surprised at the amount of damage that could be done by "over voltage". I would have hoped the system would be designed to limit damage from over voltage, but it was not. :mad:

If you don't have over voltage protection on your plane it might be a good idea to think about upgrading to a Plane Power alternator. They have internally regulated over voltage protection. They are available for both experimentals and certifieds.
 
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Well... That SUCKS.....

Glad ya got it on the ground safely...:)
 
N801BH said:
Well... That SUCKS.....

Glad ya got it on the ground safely...:)
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I was glad to be on the ground. It shook me up more than I care to admit.:redface: :lol: Having the grand daughter on board just minutes before still scares me.

I think what scared me the most is the smoke & smell got worse after I shut the master off. I thought for a minute the electrical fire was out of control and the master switch didn't kill all of the power. It turns out the smoke and smell was just moving around the cabin. I didn't think of opening the vents, but I was busy landing.
 
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glad you're safe, well handled.
 
Glad you are OK. Seems like you handled it perfectly. But what back up flight instruments did you need?
 
Lindberg said:
Glad you are OK. Seems like you handled it perfectly. But what back up flight instruments did you need?
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All of them! ;) :lol:


The airspeed and altimeter came in handy. No radio to call mayday, but there was no one flying.
 
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I went up with my CFI last weekend for what was supposed to be an hour or so of prep. Short field takeoff and right when we reach a point where options are limited he says, "Do you smell that?" It was definitely a burning smell, smelled liked wires. Ammeter was bouncing hard in the negative. We shut off what we could and stayed in the pattern. Landing in the opposite direction wasn't really a good option due to headwinds. Everything turned out to be a non-event, the Alternator belt was loose and slipping under full power and smoking. It was actually a good lesson on how I act when something goes wrong. I flubbed a few things but nothing dangerous. Landing was actually one of the best I'd had.
 
Glad you're ok and you put the bird down safely so it can be used again once repairs are complete.
 
How much delay between the initial detection of smoke and you killing the master?

We Monday morning quarterback a lot of crap on here.

You appear do be a highly experienced pilot I would like a slow-mo play by play
of how you reacted and if you were surprised by how well prepared you were for an unexpected event or how unprepared you were.

I don't know how I would react in an emergency situation and wonder how much time passes as I act.

If you don't mind. Can you break it down?
 
I thought there was a voltage regulator= a breaker between the alternator and bus for excess alternator output??
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
How much delay between the initial detection of smoke and you killing the master?

We Monday morning quarterback a lot of crap on here.

You appear do be a highly experienced pilot I would like a slow-mo play by play
of how you reacted and if you were surprised by how well prepared you were for an unexpected event or how unprepared you were.

I don't know how I would react in an emergency situation and wonder how much time passes as I act.

If you don't mind. Can you break it down?
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The real question is how long between voltage spike and me shutting it off. But to answer your question the instant I saw it my left hand was reaching for the master.

I was coming into my airport and was calling out my position. My eyes were not on the gages during that time. I smelled something odd (didn't make the connection to electrical yet) then glanced down to see voltage warning flashing. The instant I saw that I reached over and killed the master.

The battery tests out find, but certainly saw a lot of volts.

Oddly, I found two 1 amp fuses coming off the shunt that didn't blow! A silly 1 amp fuse stood up to over voltage. Maybe there was no draw. :dunno:

I would not consider myself as "highly experienced" , rather I fly a lot. :lol:
 
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Geico266 said:
I didn't think of opening the vents, but I was busy landing.
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My electrical fire checklist says to close the vents if you aren't sure the fire is out so as not to feed the beast, so you did fine I think =)

Sorry for your problems and glad you made it down safely!
 
ChrisK said:
My electrical fire checklist says to close the vents if you aren't sure the fire is out so as not to feed the beast, so you did fine I think =)

Sorry for your problems and glad you made it down safely!
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That makes sense in theory, but I would say you need the fresh air to keep breathing having gone through it. If you can't breath you can't fly the plane. :dunno:


Thanks! I was real happy I was alone. I just dropped my grand daughter off 30 mins before. Had it happened with her in the plane I would have made an off field landing right away. However, I would have been fine (in retrospect) just to shut the master off and fly to the closest airport. The smoke gets worse before it gets better. The smoke needs to dissipate.
 
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Geico266 said:
That makes sense in theory, but I would say you need the fresh air to keep breathing having gone through it. If you can't breath you can't fly the plane. :dunno:
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I always thought that. It is why that item stuck in my head. Do I want to burn or suffocate? Quite a choice....
 
Doesn't sound so bad. Guy on the Purple Board had his RV blow up with him and his daughter in it. They were both crispy crittered pretty good, too, but fared far better than the aircraft, which was destroyed.
 
steingar said:
Doesn't sound so bad. Guy on the Purple Board had his RV blow up with him and his daughter in it. They were both crispy crittered pretty good, too, but fared far better than the aircraft, which was destroyed.
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I know him. Both very fortunate to be alive. I think that was 5 years ago at least. Explosion happened on the ground after landing. Massive fuel leak inside the cabin. It is believed retracting the flaps set off the explosion. Never did find the exact cause. His fuel system was custom. Very skilled builder and tech counselor. The moral of that story is if yoiu smell raw fuel don't touch any switches! ;)
 
rchamble said:
I thought there was a voltage regulator= a breaker between the alternator and bus for excess alternator output??
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I thought so as well and cycling the master resets the breaker. Must not be the case on all planes.
 
Sam D said:
I thought so as well and cycling the master resets the breaker. Must not be the case on all planes.
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Experimental systems are not always set up with the same safety features, back ups, and redundancies as certified aircraft.
 
Geico266 said:
I didn't think of opening the vents, but I was busy landing.
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Best not to do that unless you really have to. Adding ventilation to a smoldering fire isn't my first choice emergency response.
 
Thanks for all the kind words. It really wasn't that big of deal since I was right over the airport. It turned out good and that is all that matters.

I'm now going though the electrical system. Absolutely no damage to the wiring at all so I would say the system did its job except for the over voltage. The smoke came from the boxes and components.

The Garmin G3X is looking pretty damn good!
 
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Damn, Larry, that sucks. Glad it turned out as well as it could have.
 
Gotta love the savings with those non certified parts.:rofl:;) I wonder what they saved on that alternator?
 
Henning said:
Gotta love the savings with those non certified parts.:rofl:;) I wonder what they saved on that alternator?
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What exactly is the difference between the alternator on a (almost any) PA-28 and the alternator in a '58 Buick (or whatever the hell car the Piper charging system came from)?

Obviously Larry needed over-voltage protection. Do modern voltage regulators include OV protection? I know the VRs from Zeftronics have it available.

Back on the original topic, I'm wondering how high the spike went since the SL-30 is rated to 40 volts. I'm also wondering what the battery looks like now...
 
Clark1961 said:
What exactly is the difference between the alternator on a (almost any) PA-28 and the alternator in a '58 Buick (or whatever the hell car the Piper charging system came from)?

Obviously Larry needed over-voltage protection. Do modern voltage regulators include OV protection? I know the VRs from Zeftronics have it available.

Back on the original topic, I'm wondering how high the spike went since the SL-30 is rated to 40 volts. I'm also wondering what the battery looks like now...
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The battery looks and tests fine. 12.8 volts after sitting 24 hours.

From what I understand in talking with avionics folks a failed voltage regulator could charge the system with alternating current. The radio would have popped the internal fuse instantly. Volts could have been in excess of 50. :eek:
 
Henning said:
Gotta love the savings with those non certified parts.:rofl:;) I wonder what they saved on that alternator?
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Less than $100. :rolleyes2:

The problem is Vans supplied an automotive alternator in their kits, and builders used them.

Over voltage is not limited to experimentals, nor are wiring mistakes. We have a Cessna / Cirrus repair center here. Many planes come from the factory mis-wired, and damaged due to electrical failures and fires and over voltage situations. ;)
 
Clark1961 said:
What exactly is the difference between the alternator on a (almost any) PA-28 and the alternator in a '58 Buick (or whatever the hell car the Piper charging system came from)?

Obviously Larry needed over-voltage protection. Do modern voltage regulators include OV protection? I know the VRs from Zeftronics have it available.

Back on the original topic, I'm wondering how high the spike went since the SL-30 is rated to 40 volts. I'm also wondering what the battery looks like now...
Click to expand...

Yes, the Plane Power alternator has over volt protection, as does the charging system in your PA-28.

As to the battery, I guess it kinda depends how many amps and how long, but I'm sure it's been degraded to some degree.
 
Okay, I am stunned. I called Steinair the builders of my panel that has dual Cheltons in it (valued at $8K used) and got a name of the a guy that use to work on them. I called him and talked to him about my over voltage problem. He said; "NO problem, send them to me and I will take a look." I got them back today and there was no invoice so I called him. Come to find out he actually built these units in 2005 and was glad to see them. :eek:

He fixed them for FREE! Including return shipping! :eek::eek::eek:

I owe that man a basket of Nebraska products and a few bottles of holiday cheer. :yes:

Made my day! :goofy:


No new panel for me. :mad: :lol:
 
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Geico266 said:
Okay, I am stunned. I called Steinair the builders of my panel that has dual Cheltons in it (valued at $8K used) and got a name of the a guy that use to work on them. I called him and talked to him about my over voltage problem. He said; "NO problem, send them to me and I will take a look." I got them back today and there was no invoice so I called him. Come to find out he actually built these units in 2005 and was glad to see them. :eek:

He fixed them for FREE! Including return shipping! :eek::eek::eek:


I owe that man a basket of Nebraska products and a few bottles of holiday cheer. :yes:

Made my day! :goofy:


No new panel for me. :mad: :lol:
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You are ONE lucky SOB.....:yes:......:thumbsup:
 
TheTraveler said:
Will it be the corn cobs, or the corn kernels? :)

J/K. Glad to hear it went so well!
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:lol:

We make all kinds of cool stuff! Meat, sausages, chocolates, licorice, pottery, and corn things! :lol:

Oh, and we got Larry the Cable Guy also! :rolleyes:
 
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