Skyhawk crosswind characteristics

alfadog

alfadog

Final Approach
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alfadog
So my Arrow is getting an annual and some misc work done and the Luscombe needs an annual so I am in my fallback position of flying the club C-172M's.

Flew down yesterday afternoon to X51 and took advantage of the fact that the wind seemed to have grounded most of the KTMB students that are usually down there. The wind was from the east and bouncing around 080 to 110, 15 - 20 kt and gusting to 27 kt.

Went over to Runway 18 and worked on my crosswind landings. Usually around (15 - 17)G24 from the east so a good crosswind workout.

This was the first time I have been in the 172 since doing my tailwheel work in the Luscombe. I found the 172 rudder be be less effective than I would have liked but the main thing is it is hard as hell to push and hold full rudder! Maybe I have been spoiled by the Luscombe which, like many taildraggers, I understand, has a large, effective, and sensitive rudder.
 
Those Cessna singles do have about the heaviest control forces in their class. Next time your Arrow's in the shop, try a Grumman -- you may just tell the shop to keep the Arrow. ;)
 
Ron Levy said:
Those Cessna singles do have about the heaviest control forces in their class. Next time your Arrow's in the shop, try a Grumman -- you may just tell the shop to keep the Arrow. ;)
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Stopped by the shop yesterday after flying to see how things were going with the Arrow and the mechanic had pushed a nice Grumman Cheetah he usually keeps inside out to make room to work on mine. I checked it out, seems like a nice airplane. Friend of mine bought a 1992 Tiger recently, have to ask if I can fly it :)

The best part is that my mechanic has promised me right seat in a twin Commander he regularly flies and dares me to taxi it successfully. He say that will be soon.
 
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Grummans are fun. And it's good you see that Cessnas have ineffective rudders and that makes crosswinds challenging, but not as challenging as it would be without some of that Luscombe flying you're doing. A good Luscombe pilot can land in crosswinds that will divert the 172.
 
I guess I need to try other planes. I never found the Cessan rudders lacking, but the only other thing I've flown is a Cherokee 180 so I really don't have much for comparison.
 
Cap'n Jack said:
I guess I need to try other planes. I never found the Cessan rudders lacking, but the only other thing I've flown is a Cherokee 180 so I really don't have much for comparison.
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Do you find it a PITA to hold full rudder in like a 20 kt crosswind?
 
OMG this reminds me. So I'm flying the 180hp conversion 172 with rudder trim, always set to (and left on) "Right". I decide to mess with it in flight, since at straight and level I figure I won't need it. Of course, I FORGET to put it back, and I had two other pilots in the plane. I took off from Gnoss (for the heck of it just felt like going there on the way home).... and with all my strength I could not push the right rudder hard enough or far enough to keep the ball in the middle. Immediately I figured out why, and fixed it, but things like that on takeoff certainly do teach you a lesson. I was shocked at how much force I had to use with my leg.
 
alfadog said:
The best part is that my mechanic has promised me right seat in a twin Commander he regularly flies and dares me to taxi it successfully. He say that will be soon.
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Use the brakes to steer it. Rudder movement does nothing to the nosewheel. Applying both brakes keeps the nose wheel straight; differential pressure make the nosewheel steer hydraulically. Interesting setup.

Dan
 
Dan Thomas said:
Use the brakes to steer it. Rudder movement does nothing to the nosewheel. Applying both brakes keeps the nose wheel straight; differential pressure make the nosewheel steer hydraulically. Interesting setup.

Dan
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Apparently it is a progressive hydraulic system and can get away from you easily if you hold steering input. You also have to hold a bit of opposite rudder (not brake) to ensure that the pedal you are using to brake turn has activated the steering valve. Very odd set-up.
 
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I have found it much harder to hold full rudder in both the C172 (180) and the 182 than in the Warrior. I just figured it was because of the more powerful engines, or that I need to get back to the gym...
 
BrianR said:
I have found it much harder to hold full rudder in both the C172 (180) and the 182 than in the Warrior. I just figured it was because of the more powerful engines, or that I need to get back to the gym...
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Not the engine :nonod:
 
I've been really impressed with the Evektor SportStar+ control response -- all links are tubes (not cables) and there is zero slack.

It's like flying a mini-Bonanza. :D
 
BrianR said:
I have found it much harder to hold full rudder in both the C172 (180) and the 182 than in the Warrior. I just figured it was because of the more powerful engines, or that I need to get back to the gym...
Click to expand...

Wait you too? Oh good it is not just me.
 
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