Single Seat Planes?

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Anthony F.

Filing Flight Plan
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Dec 1, 2021
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Anthony F.
Hey hey!
I’ve been trying to look into single seat planes out there, since I am more than aware I fly on my own 100% of the time.
My mission is just to fly solo with something that’s efficient on gas and goes 400 miles before I’m falling from the sky, hopefully for around $40K or less. Speed is nice to have but non-essential.
Small list of what I’ve looked into!

1: Mooney Mite. Awesome plane! Almost ideal plane on paper. I just don’t have enough info to pull the trigger on one of these things.
2: Sonex Onex, awesome frame and beautiful design, terrifying engine safety record. Aerobatics are cool too!
3: Aeromarine Merlin PSA. Quick to build, super efficient, engine kinda scares me and high wings aren’t my thing.
4: Vans RV3/4. Honestly best plane on this list, basically looks at my mission and ups the numbers 50%. Including the price.

Once again, if you know any others that I’m missing (I think I forgot a thatcher or something?), let me know more about them. Thanks a ton, hopefully I can find the right plane for me!
 
Daleandee said:
Ever look at the Panther from SPA?

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Just looked into it, sounds VERY interesting, however I’m more looking to buy a used one than build a new one, which is the only downfall of this plane it seems. They don’t seem to be going for sale atm, but that could change in the future. I’ll keep an eye out though!
 
Before going any further with the Mite you may want to become VERY familiar

with 2 ADs from 1979 pertaining to the wood structure.
 
Magman said:
Before going any further with the Mite you may want to become VERY familiar

with 2 ADs from 1979 pertaining to the wood structure.
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That’s exactly the kinda thing I was worried about. The Mite is basically what I’m looking for however that issue is a deal breaker lol.
 
Depends on what material you want to work with, and what you intend to do with the airplane.

I, of course, am an advocate for the Bowers Fly Baby. If you're an EAA member, you can download the building instructions for free.
phillips formation.jpg

The Fly Baby has classic looks, wood construction, and uses a reliable Continental engine (though there are two examples flying with Corvairs). It's extremely simple to operate and maintain... my yearly maintenance costs are about the $500 point.

Downside is the increasing rarity of the spruce used for construction. You'll need a hangar, you can't keep a wood airplane outside. Also, the airplane is NOT aerobatic.

One disadvantage of single-seat airplanes actually works in your favor, if you want to buy one: Single-seat airplanes are hard to sell, and the prices are pretty low. Prize-winning examples have sold for $15,000 or less.

Far more information than you EVER wanted at:

http://www.bowersflybaby.com/

Ron Wanttaja
 
Mites are pretty scarce, and you'll probably pay a premium for one in flyable condition.

Sport biplanes are going super cheap right now. Everybody knows about the Pitts, but there's also Starduster, Acrosport, Acroduster, EAA Biplane, Skybolt, Smith DSA, Baby Lakes, Hatz etc. Some of those are available in both single and two seat versions, but for $40K you can buy the 2 seater. Single seaters, except for Pitts, are often priced in the low to mid teens or even less. They're not terribly fuel efficient, though, especially the 2 seaters, and you probably won't get the 400 mile range you're looking for, so you land, stretch your legs and fuel up, and move on.
 
Lots of different experimentals out there that would work. Also, don't rule out a two seater: many small 2 seaters work great as a single person plane, with extra room for you and gear.

What engine is that Onex using with the high failure rate? I'm assuming you mean the Aerovee. I flew for years behind a revmaster, which the Aerovee is often compared to. When I flew with the revmaster, people would often say I'm crazy, that the engine is unreliable. I know next to nothing about the Aerovee, but I found the revmaster a great engine. The member who posted above (Ron) is a great source for data on reliability and crashes, BTW...he's written some good articles on the subject.
 
Country Flier said:
Lots of different experimentals out there that would work. Also, don't rule out a two seater: many small 2 seaters work great as a single person plane, with extra room for you and gear.

What engine is that Onex using with the high failure rate? I'm assuming you mean the Aerovee. I flew for years behind a revmaster, which the Aerovee is often compared to. When I flew with the revmaster, people would often say I'm crazy, that the engine is unreliable. I know next to nothing about the Aerovee, but I found the revmaster a great engine. The member who posted above (Ron) is a great source for data on reliability and crashes, BTW...he's written some good articles on the subject.
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My primary worry about the AeroVee is that there’s been two separate occasions when a factory built one has killed the pilot, and it was both the turbocharged and normal version. If they didn’t get it right how can I trust anyone else to?

Also for 2 seaters, I need to look into more like the Sonex/Waiex and RV4. The main issues with both been stated, any others come to mind?
 
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Anthony F. said:
My primary worry about the AeroVee is that there’s been two separate occasions when a factory built one has killed the pilot, and it was both the turbocharged and normal version. If they didn’t get it right how can I trust anyone else to?
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Of course that's never happened to a Lycoming or Continental...

But seriously, yes, experimental engines generally have a worse reliability record overall... but that record is also dragged down by improper operation or installation, many alternative engines go thousands of trouble free hours. But I'm just a crazy man, with hundreds of hours being pulled along by auto conversions and (gasp) 2-strokes. But it's the Lycomings and Continentals that have put me down in farm fields, never the others.
 
Dana said:
Of course that's never happened to a Lycoming or Continental...

But seriously, yes, experimental engines generally have a worse reliability record overall... but that record is also dragged down by improper operation or installation, many alternative engines go thousands of trouble free hours. But I'm just a crazy man, with hundreds of hours being pulled along by auto conversions and (gasp) 2-strokes. But it's the Lycomings and Continentals that have put me down in farm fields, never the others.
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I mean two of the employees from Sonex have died in their planes due to the engine problems. I’ve not got anything against a auto conversion I just like to have them proven, and the AeroVee does kinda have a record of being unreliable. I’d totally be up for a Jabiru or something though, from what I’ve researched they’re a good amount more reliable, just more expensive.
 
Problem with Aerovee engines is you get it as a kit and assemble it yourself. Airplane building skills are different from engine building skills, lots were built wrong and resulted in crashes. I'd happily fly behind a VW engine built by someone who knows what they're doing. The engines themselves, when properly assembled, are pretty bulletproof.

Racing aircraft are mostly one seat, so a Cassutt or a Midget Mustang would fit the bill, they skoot along pretty good too. Tandem two seaters sit like one-place aircraft, Vari Eze and RV4 come to mind.
 
Dana said:
But seriously, yes, experimental engines generally have a worse reliability record overall... but that record is also dragged down by improper operation or installation, many alternative engines go thousands of trouble free hours. But I'm just a crazy man, with hundreds of hours being pulled along by auto conversions and (gasp) 2-strokes. But it's the Lycomings and Continentals that have put me down in farm fields, never the others.
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I've been pulled along most of my flying time by experimental engines. Flew a bunch of Rotax two strokes and found the 503 the most reliable of the two strokes but it still had me make a few landings in silence.

I owned a VW (Aerovee) powered Sonex and don't believe I would again. The basic engine was OK but I'm not a fan of the factory carb (admittedly the newer version may be better) and the little engine (at a reported 80 hp) didn't seem like enough engine for the airframe.

Been flying a WW Corvair conversion the last ten years. Great engine that is smooth and reliable.

But Like Dana pointed out ... many times it's not the engine but rather a poor installation that causes a problem.
 
Can’t go wrong with an RV3 but with a budget of $40K or less, I’d look at Variezes or even a Longeze. Two seats but you’d have more room for cargo.
 
I've flown them, RV-3 is the best all-around pure sportplane ever.
 
Velocity173 said:
Can’t go wrong with an RV3 but with a budget of $40K or less, I’d look at Variezes or even a Longeze.
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Unless it's a real showplane, RV-3s don't generally bring over 40K. Not really that many out there in good flying condition, but many can be had for well under 40.
 
RoscoeT said:
Unless it's a real showplane, RV-3s don't generally bring over 40K. Not really that many out there in good flying condition, but many can be had for well under 40.
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Yeah, I agree. I’m saying if my budget was $40K or less, I’d also look at Vari / Longs as well. He’d have similar performance and more room for bags. Unless he’s one of the ones who’s ardently against composite EABs, he should consider them for his “mission.”
 
Velocity173 said:
Yeah, I agree. I’m saying if my budget was $40K or less, I’d also look at Vari / Longs as well. He’d have similar performance and more room for bags. Unless he’s one of the ones who’s ardently against composite EABs, he should consider them for his “mission.”
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Ah, gotcha. And yes similar performance in cruise, but those glass birds have nowhere near the short field capability of the RV. The RV easily handles rough grass strips too, and is good for acro. Has a pretty huge baggage compartment for a little single seater. You'd have to be one high-maintenance person to need more baggage space than that just for yourself. :)
 
Velocity173 said:
Yeah, I agree. I’m saying if my budget was $40K or less, I’d also look at Vari / Longs as well. He’d have similar performance and more room for bags. Unless he’s one of the ones who’s ardently against composite EABs, he should consider them for his “mission.”
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I’m definitely up for EABs, as long as I can get a good mechanic or two to inspect them with me.
 
Country Flier said:
What engine is that Onex using with the high failure rate? I'm assuming you mean the Aerovee. I flew for years behind a revmaster, which the Aerovee is often compared to. When I flew with the revmaster, people would often say I'm crazy, that the engine is unreliable. I know next to nothing about the Aerovee, but I found the revmaster a great engine. The member who posted above (Ron) is a great source for data on reliability and crashes, BTW...he's written some good articles on the subject.
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And as a matter of fact, I just completed an in-depth look at the Sonex accident rate. The company has posted it to its builder forum.

https://sonexbuilders.net/viewtopic.php?f=41&t=6545

For those who want the TLDR version, the Sonex comes out "In family" with other low-powered Sport Pilot-eligible homebuilt aircraft. The Sonex, the Zenith CH-701, and the Rans S-6/7 all come out with a higher-than-average fleet accident rate, but they generally have less-experienced pilots flying them (median total time of ~500 hours, vs. the ~1000 hours of the overall homebuilt fleet).

My 1998-2020 homebuilt accident database shows only two Onex accidents, so I'd hesitate to draw any conclusions. Of course, other Sonex accidents may have been Onexes, but are not identified as such in the NTSB report. One of the Onex accident engines was identified as a Revmaster, and the other merely as a "VW Type 1". However, in this case, the NTSB report attributes the engine failure to an improperly installed "Force One" main bearing, and the Aerovee apparently doesn't use that bearing.

In any case, there are a range of engines used on Sonex aircraft; the Aerovee isn't even a majority, in the accident statistics.

I've also been looking more closely into auto engine conversions lately. About 27% of all accidents involving fixed-wing homebuilts involve a loss of engine power, vs. ~51% of auto-engine homebuilts. Oddly enough, if you look at gyros, the auto-engine statistics are far better (~12%). Probably because they operate auto-rotation all the time.

However, remember that ALL accidents aren't necessarily due to engine issues...pilot factors still predominate.

Ron Wanttaja
 
RoscoeT said:
Ah, gotcha. And yes similar performance in cruise, but those glass birds have nowhere near the short field capability of the RV. The RV easily handles rough grass strips too, and is good for acro. Has a pretty huge baggage compartment for a little single seater. You'd have to be one high-maintenance person to need more baggage space than that just for yourself. :)
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Honestly I am very much debating it still, I just haven’t seen any examples out there for a decent price. I was expecting closer to 60K for one lol, 40K would be a dream for any RV, but especially the 3 or 4.
 
A ( surprise) Piper Colt could do it.

They don’t bring the big bucks.

36 gal of fuel at 6 gph and 100 mph will get you there before faster aircraft

needing a fuel stop.

You still have the option of 2 adults, 36 gal fuel & 100 lbs baggage.

They CAN be flown “ fish-spotter “ style.

LEFT foot on Pilot LEFT Rudder pedal.

RIGHT foot on CP RIGHT Rudder pedal.

Seat belts need adjust though.
 
Magman said:
A ( surprise) Piper Colt could do it.

They don’t bring the big bucks.

36 gal of fuel at 6 gph and 100 mph will get you there before faster aircraft

needing a fuel stop.

You still have the option of 2 adults, 36 gal fuel & 100 lbs baggage.

They CAN be flown “ fish-spotter “ style.

LEFT foot on Pilot LEFT Rudder pedal.

RIGHT foot on CP RIGHT Rudder pedal.

Seat belts need adjust though.
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Interesting, I’ll have to do some more research. Honestly the more I’ve looked into these single seat planes the more I realize it’s either go for a RV3 or just go for a 2 seater lol.
 
Magman said:
“ fish-spotter “ style.
LEFT foot on Pilot LEFT Rudder pedal.
RIGHT foot on CP RIGHT Rudder pedal.
Seat belts need adjust though.
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My Sonex is a center stick model (as was my previous one) and I have flown from the center position as you describe. Gives a good deal of room and it's easier to keep a check on your six ... :D
 
If you're an average size American male, I'd strongly recommend trying the Mite on for size before seriously considering buying one.
 
I sat in one once. I’m 6’2” and my head stuck out about 4 inches above the wind screen.
 
It won’t go 400, but when I end up making enough money to buy toys, for the price of a Lexus

 
Anthony F. said:
Just looked into it, sounds VERY interesting, however I’m more looking to buy a used one than build a new one, which is the only downfall of this plane it seems. They don’t seem to be going for sale atm, but that could change in the future. I’ll keep an eye out though!
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The guy across from me built one. He did a nice job, but needs to be painted. Do not know if he would sell
 
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