Single over water?

orange

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What is the furthest that any of you have or would be willing to fly over open water/ocean in a single?

Some guys from the school where I trained took a Cherokee to Bahamas which is about 50 miles from Florida coast I believe.
 
furthest I have? I've taken PA32's from Brazil to Africa

furthest I will? machinaw city to machinac island.
 
As I get older, I get more risk averse. I'm still comfortable with Catalina, and I'd probably be okay with the Bahamas as well, but anything more hard core than that and I'll pass.
 
Depends on the how the plane was maintained and how many hours are on things, also piston vs turbine makes a big difference.
 
I've flown from the Big Island to Maui, but was climbing all the time from Kona so was only out of gliding range for a couple minutes. From Vilankulos, Mozambique to Pemba, Mozambique, we followed the coast via Beira rather than cutting across the Mozambique Channel.
 
James331 said:
also piston vs turbine makes a big difference.
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Yeah, I just kind of assumed he meant piston single. Turbine changes the equation completely.
 
James331 said:
Depends on the how the plane was maintained and how many hours are on things, also piston vs turbine makes a big difference.
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Sorry... single piston, like a Cherokee, Archer, or a Cessna.
 
I've flown a bunch over northern and western Maine where you have lakes and trees, frankly I'm seeing open water as a lot more survivable than most of the "land" in rural North American
 
Furthest I have been - a couple miles off-shore. In theory, could glide to landing on a road or beach. In reality, really did not want to have to explore that option. It is called the Chicago skyline tour, and I fly really well maintained planes but still recognize that it is a balance of risk vs reward. Sunset over the Chicago skyline with ORD and MDW landing traffic is breathtaking. Lake Michigan is unforgiving year round, not to mention the boats, beachgoers and road traffic really make it risky if I am suddenly engine INOP.

The warmer the water, the more survival gear you have onboard, and related only reduces the maximum impact of an engine failure. But, this is an example of a topic that has come up many times, which you can see in the similar threads section. There haven't been any advancements in single engine over water technology that would negate the information in those other threads.
 
I've fly regularly from SFO to HKG in a 777. It's a twin. It's a 7,000 mile leg over water.

That's 3,500 miles per engine.
 
orange said:
Sorry... single piston, like a Cherokee, Archer, or a Cessna.
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With the right mx

And the right survival equipment

And for the right price $$$$


...Sure
 
Ferry pilots do his all the time. Single engine airplanes got to where they are some how.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
The airplane doesn't know it's over the water,Fla to the Bahamas is an easy flight. Have crossed Lake Michigan in the middle of the lake. Flown over the gulf to Key west.
 
I've crossed Lake Michigan a number of times. Doesn't really bother me. Even in a slow plane your vulnerability time is maybe ten minutes. If the engine has run well for awhile before crossing I'll bet on it keeping going for another ten minutes.
 
orange said:
But my clenched bunghole will know.:hairraise:
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If your bunghole is puckered, don't bother.

I fly Ft Meyers to KEYW once or twice a year. Flown all over the Bahamas a couple of times. No pucker but that would not have been the case earlier in my flying. Your comfort level can change, either direction.

I don't worry so much about the engine quitting beyond making sure it's good to go. I do worry about my chances of surviving a ditching. Warm water is a factor. Preservers and now a life raft are on board. 406ELT in place. EPIRB purchase planned.

Cuba, BVIs next. Love to try SA (Argentina).

Bill "RV10"
 
kayoh190 said:
Yeah, I just kind of assumed he meant piston single. Turbine changes the equation completely.
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It shouldn't. There are a lot of SE turboprops sitting on the bottom of the ocean. Everyone that I know, including myself, who has a significant amount of turboprop time has at least one story where the engine either failed or required that the power was pulled waaayyyy back to keep the engine from failing altogether. In a King Air it's nothing more than inconvenience, in a TBM900 is gets a bit more exciting.
 
Dead Stick said:
It shouldn't. There are a lot of SE turboprops sitting on the bottom of the ocean. Everyone that I know, including myself, who has a significant amount of turboprop time has at least one story where the engine either failed or required that the power was pulled waaayyyy back to keep the engine from failing altogether. In a King Air it's nothing more than inconvenience, in a TBM900 is gets a bit more exciting.
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So you think the failure rate on a turbine is the same as a piston?

Plus all the other benefits of a turbine.
 
Bill Watson said:
If your bunghole is puckered, don't bother.

I fly Ft Meyers to KEYW once or twice a year. Flown all over the Bahamas a couple of times. No pucker but that would not have been the case earlier in my flying. Your comfort level can change, either direction.

I don't worry so much about the engine quitting beyond making sure it's good to go. I do worry about my chances of surviving a ditching. Warm water is a factor. Preservers and now a life raft are on board. 406ELT in place. EPIRB purchase planned.

Cuba, BVIs next. Love to try SA (Argentina).

Bill "RV10"
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Oh yes the FMY to EYW dilemma. Over all the shark infested water going south, or cutting over the Everglades filled with everything else that could eat ya.
 
James331 said:
So you think the failure rate on a turbine is the same as a piston?

Plus all the other benefits of a turbine.
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Of course not, but they're FAR from bullet proof. What other benefits? In small aircraft the turbine conversions are of little benefit and what benefit they do offer are for those operators who don't have ready access to AVGAS. They don't come into their own until you get to the TBM series and larger singles and of course the twins.

Granted, PT-6s seldom, if ever, fail as in come apart. I've never know one to do so. What they do do is encounter fuel controller problems which will roll the power back or oil pressure problems which require that the power be pulled back to near idle. Either way, it doesn't count as an "engine failure" per se, but the results in a single are the same. In a twin it's merely an inconvenience.
 
LDJones said:
I've crossed Lake Michigan a number of times. Doesn't really bother me. Even in a slow plane your vulnerability time is maybe ten minutes. If the engine has run well for awhile before crossing I'll bet on it keeping going for another ten minutes.
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That might be a bad bet. At least it was for this guy in a C206.

http://www.ntsb.gov/_layouts/ntsb.aviation/brief2.aspx?ev_id=20100809X15745&ntsbno=CEN10FA465&akey=1

Chances are that you'll never have a problem. But a wise pilot always leaves himself an out. It you do this long enough you will eventually roll snake eyes so to speak.
 
Use to fly from ORL to the Bahamas all the time. One thing about SEL over water -- if the engine quits, you don't have to spend much time looking for a good place to land. Just watch the waves.

Also flew ORL via TPA to NEW straight over the Gulf. Less traffic unless you count the boats. Now that's a $100 lunch!!!!
 
TommyG said:
Oh yes the FMY to EYW dilemma. Over all the shark infested water going south, or cutting over the Everglades filled with everything else that could eat ya.
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that is such a valid point, I fly down to South Florida to visit my family often and when I'm over the everglades i look down and think to myself, this would be far worse than in the ocean. Then again who actually knows the answer to that and I hope non of us ever find out

I have been about 40 miles offshore in my 182. I have no problems with it. I've owned my plane since new and every hour besides mx runups have been with me in it. I know the airplane, it's sounds and quirks. When I do any leg that takes me beyond gliding distance though I do always bring a life vest, and a raft, and I file the color of my raft and life vest in the remarks section of my flight plan. I also pay extra close attention to the gauges and noises and how the engine is running in the minutes leading up to the "coast out" point
 
orange said:
What is the furthest that any of you have or would be willing to fly over open water/ocean in a single?

Some guys from the school where I trained took a Cherokee to Bahamas which is about 50 miles from Florida coast I believe.
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How warm is the water?

I'm much more comfortable over warm, survivable water vs. freezing, death in a few minutes water.
 
Bill Watson said:
If your bunghole is puckered, don't bother.

I fly Ft Meyers to KEYW once or twice a year. Flown all over the Bahamas a couple of times. No pucker but that would not have been the case earlier in my flying. Your comfort level can change, either direction.

I don't worry so much about the engine quitting beyond making sure it's good to go. I do worry about my chances of surviving a ditching. Warm water is a factor. Preservers and now a life raft are on board. 406ELT in place. EPIRB purchase planned.

Cuba, BVIs next. Love to try SA (Argentina).

Bill "RV10"
Click to expand...


FMY to EYW does not compare to Lake Michigan. The water is warm and shallow. If ya go down just stand there in the warm waist deep water until help arrives. Lake Michigan, OTOH, is a death sentence unless you're wearing a dry suit when you go down.
 
LDJones said:
I've crossed Lake Michigan a number of times. Doesn't really bother me. Even in a slow plane your vulnerability time is maybe ten minutes. If the engine has run well for awhile before crossing I'll bet on it keeping going for another ten minutes.
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Same here, lake Michigan is about 96 miles where i cross regularly to visit family so I climb to around 10k+ which leaves around 10 minutes of nothing in gliding distance.

Or if I stay low then I'm going faster and not climbing since I live near the lake shore and getting across 10 minutes faster so my total exposure is less (if you buy into that convoluted justification of fate).:dunno:
 
Captain said:
Me too. 'Completely' is too strong. 'Somewhat' is more appropriate.
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Perhaps completely was too strong, but 'somewhat' feels too weak. I'll split the difference with 'significantly'. :)
 
I was acting as a target for F-16s, at night, about 70 miles out from Atlantic City, NJ. I wouldn't do it again - CAP switched airplanes on us at the last minute, to a 172 near TBO, and a very tired panel.

I plan to do a Bahamas run, but that'll be day time, and in a better maintained airplane. No more night-over-water. . .
 
I've flown over Lake Michigan a few times in a small single. I would fly across the Atlantic. I wouldn't feel as comfortable as flying over the midwest, but I'd still do it and make sure I carry adequate survival gear.
 
Captain said:
FMY to EYW does not compare to Lake Michigan. The water is warm and shallow. If ya go down just stand there in the warm waist deep water until help arrives. Lake Michigan, OTOH, is a death sentence unless you're wearing a dry suit when you go down.
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I think that's true of the north atlantic and the north pacific as well. If you go down off the coast of San Francisco, you might last a few minutes longer that you would last in Lake Michgan, but only a few.
 
You take your chances. I've flown over lake Michigan a bunch of times. One of the best flights I ever did ever was over the pond (what it looked like that day). Engine doesn't know the difference. But yeah, without a drysuit you're dead unless you have the fantastically good luck to go down next to a boat.
 
New Orleans to Cozumel direct in my Mooney. Then from Merida MX to Brownsville TX.
 
Sac Arrow said:
I think that's true of the north atlantic and the north pacific as well. If you go down off the coast of San Francisco, you might last a few minutes longer that you would last in Lake Michgan, but only a few.
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Obviously depends on where and when (time of year), but yes, in the winter, survival would not be very long if you weren't wearing a dry suit.

I can't speak for the fixed wing guys, but Navy helo flight crews are required to wear dry suits in the winter when flying.
 
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