single engine & 5 or 6 seats??

Ron Levy said:
That's the "standard" useful load, not "as equipped." P&P's test flight in one was "within 150 lb of max gross" with three adults, "nearly full fuel," and no bags. I don't see this as a good "5 people+bags" traveling machine unless you make short trips with limited fuel reserves.
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georgewdean said:
ONE day, My goal is to own my own airplane and take my family on little quick trips on the weekends and what not.

Could you make a couple airplane recommendation for a SINGLE engine plan that seats 5 or 6???

I don't think I can afford a ME.

Thanks!
George
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.....
 
dmccormack said:
Dave,

Doesn't the tip tank STC add 200# to Useful load as long as it's fuel in the tanks?
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Dan: it can be complicated. The BDS STC allowed the fuel in the tips or cabin; the Osborne originally allowed only in the tips, but was later changed to allow most weight in the cabin. One has to check the wording of the STC.
I don't want to encourage anyone to violate the gross weight rules, but my A-36 needed nothing but paperwork to get the 400 pound TAT gross weight increase (which I did get). In the course of them inspecting before issuing the STC on my old plane, they did find I had the incorrect prop. I had to make a change. My old prop was RPM limited after it was installed. Not in my paperwork anywhere.

Best,

Dave
 
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Ron Levy said:
That's the "standard" useful load, not "as equipped." P&P's test flight in one was "within 150 lb of max gross" with three adults, "nearly full fuel," and no bags. I don't see this as a good "5 people+bags" traveling machine unless you make short trips with limited fuel reserves.
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You do realize that "nearly full fuel" is still an awful lot of fuel?? 120g max. 20gph burn. 175ktas cruise. You can cover a lot of distance without filling the tanks. I've flown 4 adults/2 children, with bags, Boston to Phila. Not an unreasonable distance.

How fat were those guys from Plane & Pilot??
 
Greg Bockelman said:
Although there are 5 sets of seatbelts in a 195, (provided the center set in the back seat has not been removed) a 195 cannot in any practical way be called a 5 place airplane. It does not take very long at all for the kids to outgrow the back seat.
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OK, then how about a De Havilland Beaver?

Dave
 
Dave Siciliano said:
Dan: it can be complicated. The BDS STC allowed the fuel in the tips or cabin; the Osborne originally allowed only in the tips, but was later changed to allow most weight in the cabin. One has to check the wording of the STC.
I don't want to encourage anyone to violate the gross weight rules, but my A-36 needed nothing but paperwork to get the 400 pound TAT gross weight increase (which I did get). In the course of them inspecting before issuing the STC on my old plane, they did find I had the incorrect prop. I had to make a change. My old prop was RPM limited after it was installed. Not in my paperwork anywhere.

Best,

Dave
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That makes sense (though complicated!)
Thanks!
 
bbchien said:
D_mn, Ken, that's a profile of my Seneca II. 750 in the cabin with 6 hours and a few minutes' fuel, 150 knots 12,000 feet/20 gph.

How is that possible with two engines? You've gotta be doing better than that.
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What surprises me is how close my Aztec is to you two. I'm getting 20 gph, 155-160 KTAS @ 6-12k ft, 1200 lb in the cabin with full fuel. Only problem is that if I'm at gross it takes me a while to get up to 12k. Not that long really, I suppose, probably 20-25 minutes. I've never timed it, it just feels long. The climb rate really tapers off above 8000 with a heavy load.
 
Greg Bockelman said:
Don't have any experience with the Beaver, but I think it probably would fit the mission. Kind of expensive to operate, I would think.
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I've been a passenger in one. Noisy. Not terribly comfortable. Did I mention noisy?
 
I got my belt covers at the local AutoZone - couldn't have cost more than $10-20.
 
Re: single engine & 5 or 6 seats?? V-Tail Bonanza

For what it's worth, there is a new STC (certified last month) that allows for 3 passengers on the rear bench seat of many models of the V-Tail Bonanza, making it capable of being a 5 place airplane. The STC is available now ... Please contact me for more details if you're interested ...

matt.grondin@hotmail.com
 
Re: single engine & 5 or 6 seats?? V-Tail Bonanza

mgrondin said:
For what it's worth, there is a new STC (certified last month) that allows for 3 passengers on the rear bench seat of many models of the V-Tail Bonanza, making it capable of being a 5 place airplane. The STC is available now ... Please contact me for more details if you're interested ...

matt.grondin@hotmail.com
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AFT loading passengers on a 35 model? lol You must be trolling....
 
Re: single engine & 5 or 6 seats?? V-Tail Bonanza

mgrondin said:
For what it's worth, there is a new STC (certified last month) that allows for 3 passengers on the rear bench seat of many models of the V-Tail Bonanza, making it capable of being a 5 place airplane. The STC is available now ... Please contact me for more details if you're interested ...

matt.grondin@hotmail.com
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NECRO WARNING!
 
Wow. Digging into the archives on this 5 year old thread.
 
A big tail U206 with a io550, extensions, vgs and the pax door stc.

It's simple, hardy, gets chit done and is the pros choice for a reason.
 
Re: single engine & 5 or 6 seats?? V-Tail Bonanza

:yes:

Putting 3 kids on the rear bench of a model 35 Bonanza can be easily done within CG - depends on how much your kids weigh though, I guess. Three kids weigh in at or less than 300# is no big deal. There are lots of families with 3 kids and this solves a big problem. A Bonanza with 3 kids on the rear bench is no big deal ... 3 adults would and could never happen. This STC solves a problem for the family that doesn't want or need a Cherokee 6 - they are out there and I am one of them. For people (like me) who have scoured message boards looking for an affordable airplane to fly a family of 5 and have come up empty handed, now there is a legitimate and legal solution.

:yes:

AND in today's market older 35 Bonanzas can be easily bought for under $40k and in many cases, under $30k. There is no other solution for a 5 person family in this price range or for the speed and economy of the Model 35 Bonanza.
 
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onwards said:
Malibu
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Take a hard look at the payload of a Malibu and you'll see that while it has six seats, you can only fill about half of them with people if you're planning to go much of anywhere at all. To get that kind of payload with that airframe, you need the extra power of the turboprop engine on the Meridian.
 
Ron Levy said:
For fixed gear, PA-32 series (Cherokee Six, Saratoga, 6X) or Cessna 206 are about the only reasonable choices; for retractable, PA-32R series (Lance or Saratoga HP), Cessna 210 (limited baggage space -- an issue when traveling with four females), and 36 Bonanza (remove 6th seat for expanded baggage area). The 36 Bonanza and PA-32 have the huge advantage over the C-206 of having the big aft door for loading, and the fixed-gear PA-32 will have the best available fuel load after putting the family and their luggage aboard (BE36's often have small full fuel payloads, especially the later models).

C-205's will work, but there aren't many around.

Whatever you look at, check the actual, current W&B sheet to see what useful load you have to play with.

And a Beech Sierra won't even come close to handling this mission.
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C207, but it ain't a speed demon.
 
GA-8 Airvan

1-ga8-airvan.jpg
 
JHW said:
problem there is where it's made.
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O.k. let's get a little more radical then ..

CompAir 8

:yes:


compair8.jpg


I'd go for one with an I0-550 and put 26" tundra's on it. Now you've got a truck that can haul the mail. :D
 
I second the Malibu. Keep the fuel down and go.
 
txflyer said:
O.k. let's get a little more radical then ..

CompAir 8

:yes:


compair8.jpg


I'd go for one with an I0-550 and put 26" tundra's on it. Now you've got a truck that can haul the mail. :D
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While cool and with good specs, the record and reports on them are not stellar. I would not fly anything that large on an IO-550. That airframe needs 750hp to be effective, it was designed to use the Walther turbine and that's what it should have. Personally if I wanted something in that vein, I'd be looking at Helio products, either Courier or Stallion if I was looking for a big turbine powered plane. There are also the DHC products, but they are way expensive because they make money.
 
Henning said:
While cool and with good specs, the record and reports on them are not stellar. I would not fly anything that large on an IO-550. That airframe needs 750hp to be effective, it was designed to use the Walther turbine and that's what it should have. Personally if I wanted something in that vein, I'd be looking at Helio products, either Courier or Stallion if I was looking for a big turbine powered plane. There are also the DHC products, but they are way expensive because they make money.
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Yeah, I don't know the power envelope the CompAir's need, but they are way cool.

OP said he wants a plane to seat 5 or 6. What I know is, if you have a 6 place single and put six grown adults in it, that's about all you can put in it.

To haul 5 or 6 people comfortably with all their baggage, he's really going to need an 8 or 10 place plane. The airvan or comp8 or a Caravan would be nice.
 
txflyer said:
Yeah, I don't know the power envelope the CompAir's need, but they are way cool.

OP said he wants a plane to seat 5 or 6. What I know is, if you have a 6 place single and put six grown adults in it, that's about all you can put in it.

To haul 5 or 6 people comfortably with all their baggage, he's really going to need an 8 or 10 place plane. The airvan or comp8 or a Caravan would be nice.
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Yeah, if you want to haul a big family of 6 that has three women packing like the Queen of Sheba, you're gonna need a 208.:lol: if it's a lighter framed family of 6 a 205/206 or PA-32 series will do well, even a 36 Bonanza isn't that limited. The 207 is another option, it's a pretty capable airplane, but it's a money maker so not cheap to purchase.

There was a guy who hung a 425 or 475hp M-14 on a Helio Courier, that would be a performer.
 
HondaJet HA-420...single pilot + 5 passengers. 420KTAS, 4000ftpm climb, 1500 mi range, cruise altitude FL43...
 
Have owned a PA32-300 Cherokee Six for 20+ years now. Used to routinely fly it with five people and (not too big) bags, usually was the wife and kids and I. The nose baggage compartment is really great, but I've also had one of the six seats out for most of the entire time I've had it, to give more interior space for "stuff". (And never needed the 6th seat anyway.) I get 145 kts TAS at 8500' on about 15 gph. Full fuel (94 gals) leaves approx 800 lbs for people and bags. That's not going to equate to five average adults and bags, but I rarely needed full fuel for my typical trips and the women and chilluns were pretty lightweight too. The kids are grown and gone now - just the wife and I on trips - and though I would like something faster, she will not give up the comfort of that big cabin ..... Which is my fault, because I spoiled her by taking the rear seats out for long trips and filling the space with old comforters and pillows so she has a complete lie-down bed in back! A few years ago, I was seriously considering a Mooney Bravo, until she looked inside and asked how I would build her "bed" in the back of "that tiny airplane". We still have the Cherokee Six.
 
mswmsw said:
Have owned a PA32-300 Cherokee Six for 20+ years now. Used to routinely fly it with five people and (not too big) bags, usually was the wife and kids and I. The nose baggage compartment is really great, but I've also had one of the six seats out for most of the entire time I've had it, to give more interior space for "stuff". (And never needed the 6th seat anyway.) I get 145 kts TAS at 8500' on about 15 gph. Full fuel (94 gals) leaves approx 800 lbs for people and bags. That's not going to equate to five average adults and bags, but I rarely needed full fuel for my typical trips and the women and chilluns were pretty lightweight too. The kids are grown and gone now - just the wife and I on trips - and though I would like something faster, she will not give up the comfort of that big cabin ..... Which is my fault, because I spoiled her by taking the rear seats out for long trips and filling the space with old comforters and pillows so she has a complete lie-down bed in back! A few years ago, I was seriously considering a Mooney Bravo, until she looked inside and asked how I would build her "bed" in the back of "that tiny airplane". We still have the Cherokee Six.
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People never believed it when I said a 310 is as fuel efficient as a Cherokee 6.

image.jpg
 
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