Silly, contrived scenario

Discussion in 'Flight Following' started by Salty, May 11, 2023.

  1. Salty

    Salty Touchdown! Greaser!

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    You are a CFI.
    You do not currently meet the requirements for night flight with passengers. (Less than 3 landings in the last 90 days)

    Can you instruct a private student pilot, at night, if they are night current, and they remain sole manipulator of the controls?
     
  2. midwestpa24

    midwestpa24 En-Route

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    I'm not sure if you are posting this sincerely or just to stir the pot...

    But as been discussed numerous times, a student is not considered a passenger. Neither the CFI nor the student need be night current to be legal.
     
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  3. Dave Theisen

    Dave Theisen En-Route PoA Supporter

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    You can instruct them at night even if they aren’t night current.
     
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  4. Salty

    Salty Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Can’t I sincerely stir the pot?
     
    Last edited: May 11, 2023
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  5. eman1200

    eman1200 Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    Bro do you even lift
    troll.
     
  6. Jeff Oslick

    Jeff Oslick Final Approach PoA Supporter

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    This is one of my regular CFI's favorite loopholes to bring up.
     
  7. Salty

    Salty Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Honestly, I did forget that students aren’t passengers. It’s so freaking stupid, but most of the regs are.
     
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  8. Doc Holliday

    Doc Holliday Pattern Altitude

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    [​IMG]
     
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  9. luvflyin

    luvflyin Touchdown! Greaser!

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    upload_2023-5-11_8-44-50.png No

    Edit: Bad coin...

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: May 11, 2023
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  10. Zeldman

    Zeldman Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Only if you use your left hand...
     
  11. midwestpa24

    midwestpa24 En-Route

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    No argument from me. Honestly when I became a CFI, it had been years since I flew at night. Just never had much need for it when the sun sets after 9:00 PM during the best flying weather here, and the weather usually sucks when it sets at 4:30 PM.
     
  12. Salty

    Salty Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Anybody that thinks it makes sense that a student isn't a passenger, and that it makes sense that the currency rule doesn't apply if the passenger is a student is pretty naive.
     
  13. Doc Holliday

    Doc Holliday Pattern Altitude

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    Yep, all these rules and regulations must have been instated after you got your certificate. How dare they!
     
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  14. Half Fast

    Half Fast Touchdown! Greaser!

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    There is something amiss
    I am being insincere
    In fact I don't mean any of this
    Still my confession draws you near
    To confuse the issue I refer
    To familiar heroes from long ago
    No matter how much Peter loved her
    What made the Pan refuse to grow

    Was the hook brings you back
    I ain't tellin' you no lie
    The hook brings you back
    On that you can rely
     
  15. Salty

    Salty Touchdown! Greaser!

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    I have no idea who you are responding too, but your post certainly makes no sense as a response to mine. It's a pretty solid straw man argument though. Or perhaps non-sequitur.
     
  16. MauleSkinner

    MauleSkinner Touchdown! Greaser!

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    If the passenger is a student, the currency rule does apply.
     
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  17. Salty

    Salty Touchdown! Greaser!

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    So you disagree with those above?
     
  18. MauleSkinner

    MauleSkinner Touchdown! Greaser!

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    No, they said nothing about passengers exempting the requirement. You added that.
     
  19. Salty

    Salty Touchdown! Greaser!

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    But you used the word passenger also.
     
  20. Half Fast

    Half Fast Touchdown! Greaser!

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    ????

    See post #2.
     
  21. MauleSkinner

    MauleSkinner Touchdown! Greaser!

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    I used the word passenger because you put a passenger into the scenario. A Pilot receiving instruction is not a passenger, but a passenger is still a passenger regardless of certificates held.
     
  22. MauleSkinner

    MauleSkinner Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Post #2 said a student is NOT a passenger.
     
  23. Salty

    Salty Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Restating to avoid the trigger word

    Anybody that thinks it makes sense that a student isn't a passenger, and that it makes sense that the currency rule doesn't apply if the person who is not PIC and is at the mercy of the PIC, happens to be a student, is pretty naive.
     
  24. MauleSkinner

    MauleSkinner Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Anybody who thinks a student is necessarily at the mercy of an instructor either is or has had some really ****ty instructors.
     
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  25. Salty

    Salty Touchdown! Greaser!

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    The FAA believes that an instructor should have 3 landings in 90 days in order to carry a passenger with them.
    The FAA believes that same instructor does not need to have any recent landings in order to carry a student with them.

    This is stupid. If you disagree, you are being obtuse or naive.

    A student is no less at the mercy of an instructor than a passenger is.
     
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  26. MauleSkinner

    MauleSkinner Touchdown! Greaser!

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    I just don’t happen to believe that currency and safety are synonymous.
     
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  27. Dave Theisen

    Dave Theisen En-Route PoA Supporter

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    So it feels like someone else is doing it. :)
     
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  28. Salty

    Salty Touchdown! Greaser!

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    I agree with that. But then that just means you think it's the first statement in my last post that's silly rather than the second one.
     
  29. MauleSkinner

    MauleSkinner Touchdown! Greaser!

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    No, because the reg has more to do with the person who’s not the instructor than the instructor.
     
  30. Salty

    Salty Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Third times the charm I guess?
     
  31. Dave Theisen

    Dave Theisen En-Route PoA Supporter

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    An issue I have with the night currency regulation is that it is a “one size fits all” designed for the lowest common denominator. As a working pilot, I take checkrides every six months and can have a dozen night landings in the jet, but have to go up and do three laps around the pattern in the Pilatus to keep the FAA happy because the reg is written for the 100 hour private pilot.
     
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  32. MauleSkinner

    MauleSkinner Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Depends whether you understand it yet or not.
     
  33. MauleSkinner

    MauleSkinner Touchdown! Greaser!

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    …and more than likely your night currency in the jet is good for 12 months.
     
  34. Salty

    Salty Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Well the content was completely different the first two times ;)
     
  35. Dave Theisen

    Dave Theisen En-Route PoA Supporter

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    Exactly. If I’ve been to sim training in the past 12 months and have flown 15 hours in the previous 90 days, I don’t need any night time at all.
     
  36. bflynn

    bflynn Final Approach

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    Passengers are more important than students?
     
  37. luvflyin

    luvflyin Touchdown! Greaser!

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  38. MauleSkinner

    MauleSkinner Touchdown! Greaser!

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    No, just theoretically more in need of protecting.
     
  39. eman1200

    eman1200 Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    Bro do you even lift
    I’m going to be like the dude from Memento and get all the FAR’s tattoo’d on me so I remember them each day.
     
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  40. midwestpa24

    midwestpa24 En-Route

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    Don't forget all the Legal Interpretations that sometimes bend or add to the FARs.