<SIGH> Back to square one

Late Bloomer

Late Bloomer

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Late Bloomer
I had my second flight with my new CFI today (I was originally scheduled for more, but they were cancelled due to weather).

After I had preflighted the plane, I overheard someone saying she was leaving. So as I went back into the office to discuss our flight. I asked her if she was leaving, and she told me, "Yes--I thought I had told you." I said, "Well, no you didn't. This is the first I'd heard about it." She became very apologetic, and told me she had to go back home to deal with some family issues.

I was so devastated, because I thought I had finally found the CFI I was going to finish with. I told her I really didn't feel like doing a lesson today; how about we just go up and play? So that's what we did. We did some stalls, and she talked me through a Chandelle; but most of the time, we just cruised along the beach.

Her last day of instruction is this weekend, so now I find myself without an instructor--again. I work nights, so I can only fly during the day. She was the last full-time instructor at the school, and now they have no one to teach during the day.

I visited another flight school near me several months ago, and it didn't impress me too much. I had a lot of questions, and wanted to talk to some of their previous students. I gave them my contact information, and waited for their call or a letter. I'm still waiting... The only other flight school in the area closed a few weeks ago, so now I'm stuck.

I seriously thought about quitting today, but I have decided to persevere for now. I'm tempted to take some time off of work and go to one of those flight schools in central FL that claim you can get your PP certificate in 2 - 3 weeks.

I never knew flight training could be so frustrating!
 
What you need to do is to get in touch with the local airport mafia - the middle-aged and older coots who know what's up. They can hook you up with a mature and independent instructor- the one they would use.

Sometimes, in the process, you'll find a smokin' deal on renting from an individual, as well.
 
What Maybe said.

The only way I got through my training was with a couple of older CFII's that teach because they love to teach and fly. Try to find one of those.
 
How far are you willing to drive?
 
This is one of the problems that aviation has about bringing new folks into the fold. It's also a (lesser) issue for folks that move and need to find good services in their new city (or when folks disappear, like the A&P I used to use).

I agree with the thoughts of talking to others at the airport and finding an older instructor that's been around for a while.
 
wsuffa said:
This is one of the problems that aviation has about bringing new folks into the fold.
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There are a lot of little things like that that sour new people to flying. I was a beginner once - I remember thinking there would be a lot more organization to flight training. But once I got a little more used to the way things work, I understood that CFIs come and go, that airplanes on the rental line come and go, that getting a medical can be more involved that simply "how many fingers am I holding up" and checking to see if you can fog a mirror.

I think we need to be a little more active in mentoring, and helping students avoid the "being thrown to the wolves" feeling.

--

To the OP - check on the local airport bulletin board. There will probably be a number of business cards on it for CFIs. Call around and see what kind of arrangements they can make, and ask for referrals on where and what to rent. It'll work out, you don't always need a 'school'.
 
Matthew said:
I think we need to be a little more active in mentoring, and helping students avoid the "being thrown to the wolves" feeling.
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Maybe the "wolves" serve a purpose?

Check the other thread on the guy giving up.
 
Late,

Unfortunately this is just something that you all too often have to deal with. I had ALL SORTS of challenges in getting an instructor and getting him to fly with me. Along the way when I got discouraged, someone asked me a question that I will ask you:

If you want to learn to fly you will work through all this, so do you want to learn to fly? Well, do ya?
 
I saw in the Ariel post that you were training at the Aero Club at Eglin. I may be able to help you - I live in the area. I did most of my training with an "old coot" at a nearby private airpark. PM me, Jeff.
 
Late Bloomer said:
I had my second flight with my new CFI today (I was originally scheduled for more, but they were cancelled due to weather).

After I had preflighted the plane, I overheard someone saying she was leaving. So as I went back into the office to discuss our flight. I asked her if she was leaving, and she told me, "Yes--I thought I had told you." I said, "Well, no you didn't. This is the first I'd heard about it." She became very apologetic, and told me she had to go back home to deal with some family issues.

I was so devastated, because I thought I had finally found the CFI I was going to finish with. I told her I really didn't feel like doing a lesson today; how about we just go up and play? So that's what we did. We did some stalls, and she talked me through a Chandelle; but most of the time, we just cruised along the beach.

Her last day of instruction is this weekend, so now I find myself without an instructor--again. I work nights, so I can only fly during the day. She was the last full-time instructor at the school, and now they have no one to teach during the day.

I visited another flight school near me several months ago, and it didn't impress me too much. I had a lot of questions, and wanted to talk to some of their previous students. I gave them my contact information, and waited for their call or a letter. I'm still waiting... The only other flight school in the area closed a few weeks ago, so now I'm stuck.

I seriously thought about quitting today, but I have decided to persevere for now. I'm tempted to take some time off of work and go to one of those flight schools in central FL that claim you can get your PP certificate in 2 - 3 weeks.

I never knew flight training could be so frustrating!
Click to expand...

Where in FL? If you're in So Fla let me know and I can hook you up with a full time CFI.
 
Anthony said:
Maybe the "wolves" serve a purpose?

Check the other thread on the guy giving up.
Click to expand...

What is that purpose ? Intimidating condescension to 16/17 year old young people ? :rolleyes:

Let's go over to grandma's house next and beat the crap out of her for rolling her eyes and having a sour tongue - how dare she have a bad flight experience and talk about it :eek:

:nonod:

I forget my FOI lessons, which Law involves deprecating potential flight students?
 
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How far are you willing to drive?
Click to expand...

Since I work, I'd like to keep it under 25 miles if possible.

If you want to learn to fly you will work through all this, so do you want to learn to fly? Well, do ya?
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I was contemplating quitting, but attaining anything worthwhile is never easy. I'll get through it.

PM me, Jeff.
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PM sent.

Where in FL?
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Pretty sure in the Panhandle based on other posts.
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Yup.
 
Late Bloomer said:
Since I work, I'd like to keep it under 25 miles if possible.
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If you get really desperate, the guys in Milton have impressed me. Doesn't seem like they're there to build time and sticking with one instructor for more than two flights would be good for you.
 
Late Bloomer, I feel your pain! I decided to post on this thread, although it seems like I could have posted on any number of other threads at the moment:D, because your situation sounds familiar. I have had only 12 lessons so far, with four different flight instructors! OK, the first one was my discovery flight, so that didn't really count, and the second CFI I "fired" (actually, I really liked him, but didn't like the school), but had finally settled into a school where I felt comfortable. The first CFI I had there left for an airline job after four lessons, and the second one just called today, after only three lessons with him, to say that he was leaving for another job. I understand that people are of course looking out for themselves, and shouldn't pass up an opportunity to advance, or do what it is they want to do, but I'm feeling almost kind of abandoned at this point!

In what other business would it be so hard to find instruction when one has the time, money and motivation to learn a new sport, or skill? I can't think of any. I've had golf instructors and ski instructors, and they all seemed happy to teach, and were there year after year.

Some people say it shouldn't matter how many CFIs you go through, that aviation is all about change and challenge and the ability to adapt, but with each new CFI, I get the same "Let's just have a flight to get to know each other" routine, and then I've spent another $200 or so and am no farther ahead. And I do think trust is very important in flight training, so if I 'm changing CFIs every three flights or so, how do I build that trust?

Oh well, it is what it is, I guess. I just needed to vent. Thanks for listening, whoever is out there!:wink2:
 
If you're staying at the same school, you shouldn't be getting the "let's get to know each other" from each new CFI. They should be using a similar syllabus and should be able to pick up where you were with the previous CFI and get to know you while you're doing that.

Caveat - this gets harder the closer you are to soloing, because the individual CFI is going to want to see you demonstrate everything required before he puts his ticket in your hands and signs you off. However, if there's good documentation, it's quite possible. It really depends on if you're going to a SCHOOL, where the teachers all teach a common plan with minor variations, or if you're going to a place where the CFIs are all essentially independents.

For prospective students, If you go an interview a school, this is a question you want to be sure to ask. "What happens if/when my instructor leaves? Are you all teaching from the same syllabus so I don't have to redo a lot of work?"

A 141 school is REQUIRED to work this way, and that can be one of the advantages. Unfortunately many 141 schools are 141 for the "advanced" (instrument/commercial) courses and not for the private.

Sorry to hear of your troubles... It does seem like regional airline hiring is on an uptick right now and CFIs are getting hired.
 
TMetzinger said:
If you're staying at the same school, you shouldn't be getting the "let's get to know each other" from each new CFI. They should be using a similar syllabus and should be able to pick up where you were with the previous CFI and get to know you while you're doing that.

Caveat - this gets harder the closer you are to soloing, because the individual CFI is going to want to see you demonstrate everything required before he puts his ticket in your hands and signs you off. However, if there's good documentation, it's quite possible. It really depends on if you're going to a SCHOOL, where the teachers all teach a common plan with minor variations, or if you're going to a place where the CFIs are all essentially independents.

For prospective students, If you go an interview a school, this is a question you want to be sure to ask. "What happens if/when my instructor leaves? Are you all teaching from the same syllabus so I don't have to redo a lot of work?"

A 141 school is REQUIRED to work this way, and that can be one of the advantages. Unfortunately many 141 schools are 141 for the "advanced" (instrument/commercial) courses and not for the private.

Sorry to hear of your troubles... It does seem like regional airline hiring is on an uptick right now and CFIs are getting hired.
Click to expand...

Thanks, Tim. Sadly enough, I have yet to see a syllabus! I have been doing Part 61 training, so I guess that's a little different. But still ...
 
Multiple instructors does not have to be a hindrance, it can be a benefit in fact if operated properly and to standards as it takes a primary cause of delay out of the loop. Even if the flight school you are using is not properly organized to make beneficial use of this does not mean that you can't be. You need to make an organized checklist of all the training requirements and have that signed off as well as your log book at the end of your lessons. On that same list is where you note your comfort with that requirement and whether you still need work and its priority. That way as you get further into your training, you don't waste time, you tell whichever instructor what you need to work on today. You also want to do a few 'evaluation flights' along the way with a senior instructor (if you can't afford the time or $$$ get them for all) to get an outside evaluation of your progress and maybe some tips. If you are shy of being able to find these senior CFIs, consider using the DE you plan to take your check ride with; they are typically working CFIs as well. It can pay off in spades and the only restriction there is is that another CFI has to recommend you for the ride. With my MES Jojo Shebly was my primary CFI and DE in the BE 18, but his dad went up with us for an hour and the full ride worth of maneuvers and recommended me for the ride.
If you feel you are going too long to reach milestones while putting in a full effort (4 hrs a week flying across 2-6 lessons + minimum 10 hrs a week study, preferably on the FBO/ flight school couch.) such as >20hrs to solo >55hrs to PP, I would strongly suggest you take an evaluation/instruction session from your local DE to get squared away on what is not going properly and where changes need to be made.

One thing many people experience on their check ride is that they learn more once the DE starts 'teaching' (that's when you know you passed, when the DE goes, 'Let me show you a trick') than they did in 10 hrs of prior instruction. There's no reason you can't take advantage of that knowledge prior to your ride.
 
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jaybee said:
What is that purpose ? Intimidating condescension to 16/17 year old young people ? :rolleyes:

Let's go over to grandma's house next and beat the crap out of her for rolling her eyes and having a sour tongue - how dare she have a bad flight experience and talk about it :eek:

:nonod:

I forget my FOI lessons, which Law involves deprecating potential flight students?
Click to expand...

That's about the best thread summary I've ever seen.
 
jaybee said:
What is that purpose ? Intimidating condescension to 16/17 year old young people ? :rolleyes:

Let's go over to grandma's house next and beat the crap out of her for rolling her eyes and having a sour tongue - how dare she have a bad flight experience and talk about it :eek:

:nonod:

I forget my FOI lessons, which Law involves deprecating potential flight students?
Click to expand...


I really don't have much of a clue as to what you are talking about. My point is that there are obstacles, and challenges to every endeavor that is worth attaining including getting a PPC. The character of the individual to overcome those obstacles may help decide who flies, and who doesn't. Those that are willing to jump through all the hoops may be better pilots for it. I wasn't trying to dissuade anyone.

Maybe you should say what you mean instead of speaking in riddles? And as for Grandma? She'll get what she deserves........Run over by a Reindeer, no doubt.
 
Henning said:
Multiple instructors does not have to be a hindrance, it can be a benefit in fact if operated properly and to standards as it takes a primary cause of delay out of the loop. Even if the flight school you are using is not properly organized to make beneficial use of this does not mean that you can't be. You need to make an organized checklist of all the training requirements and have that signed off as well as your log book at the end of your lessons. On that same list is where you note your comfort with that requirement and whether you still need work and its priority. That way as you get further into your training, you don't waste time, you tell whichever instructor what you need to work on today. You also want to do a few 'evaluation flights' along the way with a senior instructor (if you can't afford the time or $$$ get them for all) to get an outside evaluation of your progress and maybe some tips. If you are shy of being able to find these senior CFIs, consider using the DE you plan to take your check ride with; they are typically working CFIs as well. It can pay off in spades and the only restriction there is is that another CFI has to recommend you for the ride. With my MES Jojo Shebly was my primary CFI and DE in the BE 18, but his dad went up with us for an hour and the full ride worth of maneuvers and recommended me for the ride.
If you feel you are going too long to reach milestones while putting in a full effort (4 hrs a week flying across 2-6 lessons + minimum 10 hrs a week study, preferably on the FBO/ flight school couch.) such as >20hrs to solo >55hrs to PP, I would strongly suggest you take an evaluation/instruction session from your local DE to get squared away on what is not going properly and where changes need to be made.

One thing many people experience on their check ride is that they learn more once the DE starts 'teaching' (that's when you know you passed, when the DE goes, 'Let me show you a trick') than they did in 10 hrs of prior instruction. There's no reason you can't take advantage of that knowledge prior to your ride.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the suggestions. If I were to summarize it, it's like anything else in life: you have to take charge of your own fate! You can't necessarily trust doctors, lawyers, CFIs or whatever other professional you're consulting to know what they're doing! Knowledge is power.
 
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Eagle I said:
Thanks for the suggestions. If I were to summarize it, it's like anything else in life: you have to take charge of your own fate! You can't necessarily trust doctors, lawyers, CFIs or whatever other professional you're consulting to know what they're doing! Knowledge is power.
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I found life to go much smoother when I expect and prepare for incompetence. Take charge is right, most instructors are dumb as a sack of bricks.
 
Henning said:
I found life to go much smoother when I expect and prepare for incompetence. Take charge is right, most instructors are dumb as a sack of bricks.
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I don't know that I would go so far as to condemn all CFIs. However, I do think there's a tendency for student pilots to enter into instruction with this wide-eyed sense of awe, thinking their instructor knows best, when maybe they don't. All one has to do is read some of the NTSB reports on dual-instruction accidents to know that student pilots also ought to take some responsibility for their own well-being!
 
Not all, 80%; that's enough that it's what you need to prepare for and even use until you find better.
 
Eagle I said:
My favorite was the one who tested postmorten for marijuana. You'd like to think your CFI isn't a stoner!:yikes: By the way, I love Flat Stanley.:wink2:
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I would imagine the fact that he was stuffing his face with pizza while saying "Right Rudder" would have provided a clue.

Wait... it's actually not funny. Scratch that.

Flat Stanley... lol.
 
Eagle I said:
Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe said:
Show up with your own.
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Damn, why didn't I think of that? Thanks!
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You might consider reading the Instructor's Manual.;) If you haven't downloaded the library of materials from the FAA yet, outside the FARs (available elsewhere)you can get the answers to everything aviation you will ever need to know for the FAA here for free.

http://www.faa.gov/regulations_policies/handbooks_manuals/

The two biggies of info for pilots are these:

http://www.faa.gov/library/manuals/aviation/
http://www.faa.gov/library/manuals/aircraft/
 
Tracey said:
I would imagine the fact that he was stuffing his face with pizza while saying "Right Rudder" would have provided a clue.

While saying, "Oh wow, man, look at those VASI lights!":D
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I think I explained why I said that in my previous post. Good day to you sir.
 
Anthony said:
I think I explained why I said that in my previous post. Good day to you sir.
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Really? Because you said you had no clue, I'm not quite sure how you could explain something when you had no clue what I was talking about. I was clarifying for you. For some reason you're "good day sir" doesn't sound very sincere. :dunno:

If you're going to say something than stand behind it, either way. I wasn't judging you or "speaking in riddles". I asked some pretty simple straight forward questions.

What is that purpose?
And which Law of the FOI covers that?

You seem to be advocating the "wolves" yet change your tune when questioned varying all the way from a standpoint of confusion to a spin doctoring of your original statement.

So which is it now - do you advocate turning the wolves loose on people struggling with their flight training? or do you advocate helping troubled people identify problems and solutions?

cause right now you are sitting on a swinging fence gate and trying misdirect the conversation away from your previous statements.

:dunno:

Sincerely, good day to you sir.
 
Right Rudder!
<chomp>
Right Rudder!
<chomp>
DUUUUUUUDE! Right Rudder!


Hint - if your CFI brings back "Big Lebowski" memories, be afraid.
 
TMetzinger said:
Right Rudder!
<chomp>
Right Rudder!
<chomp>
DUUUUUUUDE! Right Rudder!


Hint - if your CFI brings back "Big Lebowski" memories, be afraid.
Click to expand...

Depends on if that instruction is coming during a ride along on the 91 side of a 135 flight.:rolleyes:
 
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