SIC training

[Irish_Armada]

Dumb question, dumb thread, but since you've already started reading it might as well enlighten me if you know: how do they train pilots to be second-in-command / first officers / right seaters? In primary training the CFI sits right seat and instructs the student in the left seat because he's training you to be a left-seater PIC. What about SIC on the bigger equipment, does the instructor train the first officer while flying as PIC in the left seat, or do you just get trained in the sim?

 

[Zeldman]

There are no dumb questions but I bet you surely will get dumba$$ responses.

 

[poadeleted20]

Classroom training, sim training (in the right seat with someone else in the left seat and an instructor on the console), and operational/line training with an instructor captain in the left seat. Note that in modern airline operations with high level full flight simulators, the entire training program may be conducted in the sim, and the new copilot's first flight in a real airplane of that type may be with 400 people in the back and an instructor/check captain in the left seat.

 

[Irish_Armada]

Okay, cool. Thanks Ron.

 

[jonnyjetprop]

Classroom training, sim training (in the right seat with someone else in the left seat and an instructor on the console), and operational/line training with an instructor captain in the left seat. Note that in modern airline operations with high level full flight simulators, the entire training program may be conducted in the sim, and the new copilot's first flight in a real airplane of that type may be with 400 people in the back and an instructor/check captain in the left seat.

I'll add that if you're thinking about a 121 SIC job, you will have to pass a PIC type rating in the airplane. There are no more SIC type ratings in the 121 world anymore.

In airline operations, the norm is to fly all simulator thru the type ride and LOFT (line orientated flight training). My first flights in the MD-80, B-747, and MD-11 were all made with unsuspecting passengers or boxes in the back. The only time you fly the plane first without anyone on board is if the simulator was not approved for landing credit. I had to go out and do bounces in a DC-8 and DC-10 because of this. If anyone cares, we did touch and goes.

 

[Slipkid65]

I'll add that if you're thinking about a 121 SIC job, you will have to pass a PIC type rating in the airplane. There are no more SIC type ratings in the 121 world anymore.

In airline operations, the norm is to fly all simulator thru the type ride and LOFT (line orientated flight training). My first flights in the MD-80, B-747, and MD-11 were all made with unsuspecting passengers or boxes in the back. The only time you fly the plane first without anyone on board is if the simulator was not approved for landing credit. I had to go out and do bounces in a DC-8 and DC-10 because of this. If anyone cares, we did touch and goes.

Exactly......

I did a bunch of my pre major airline training in the airplanes, all turboprop or recips, which was, in retrospect, a lot more fun than the sim.

My favorite, by far, was the DHC-7. There wasn't a sim for it when I was flying it, so all training and proficiency checks were done in the actual airplane. I think they built one up in Canada at some point, but I never got to use it. They would have one airplane blocked for MX in PVD for 4 hours during the day, and that was typically used for check rides if there was no scheduled MX. We also did a lot of training at night, when the airplanes were done flying revenue for the day. I got my BA-3100 and DHC-7 type in the wee hours.

The most fun was doing PCs in the DHC-7. I was based in PVD, so, we had the airplane for a 4 hour block. Even with 2 guys, you wouldn't use up nearly that doing the official "ride" stuff, so we'd do touch and goes at Block Island, HTO, Fall River etc. Once, we landed in HTO to see an old friend of mine who was the airport manager. He waived the landing fee!

Nowadays, it's ALL done in the sim. The last time I trained in an actual airplane was almost 20 years ago, and it was to do bounces in the 737 after the sim stuff and before IOE. We had 4 of us and the check airman took us over to Alliance and we spent a few hours crashing a -500. I had over 7000 hours at the time, and that was the first time I ever flew a pure jet airplane. Fun times!

 

[Gucci Pilot]

I know some guys that have gotten SIC type ratings to fly right seat in some corporate jets. Basically go over systems, avionics, checklists procedures, and other things to make you useful to the PIC.

 

[jonnyjetprop]

Nothing like flying in a full pattern at Dale Collier at midnight. I got to do all my commuter training in the airplanes at night. Wait for the last flight n and grab the plane and go. After the Business Express accident, they made us fly IFR. It upset the controls to no end doing endless approaches in the middle of the night.

Exactly......

I did a bunch of my pre major airline training in the airplanes, all turboprop or recips, which was, in retrospect, a lot more fun than the sim.

My favorite, by far, was the DHC-7. There wasn't a sim for it when I was flying it, so all training and proficiency checks were done in the actual airplane. I think they built one up in Canada at some point, but I never got to use it. They would have one airplane blocked for MX in PVD for 4 hours during the day, and that was typically used for check rides if there was no scheduled MX. We also did a lot of training at night, when the airplanes were done flying revenue for the day. I got my BA-3100 and DHC-7 type in the wee hours.

The most fun was doing PCs in the DHC-7. I was based in PVD, so, we had the airplane for a 4 hour block. Even with 2 guys, you wouldn't use up nearly that doing the official "ride" stuff, so we'd do touch and goes at Block Island, HTO, Fall River etc. Once, we landed in HTO to see an old friend of mine who was the airport manager. He waived the landing fee!

Nowadays, it's ALL done in the sim. The last time I trained in an actual airplane was almost 20 years ago, and it was to do bounces in the 737 after the sim stuff and before IOE. We had 4 of us and the check airman took us over to Alliance and we spent a few hours crashing a -500. I had over 7000 hours at the time, and that was the first time I ever flew a pure jet airplane. Fun times!

 

[Slipkid65]

Nothing like flying in a full pattern at Dale Collier at midnight. I got to do all my commuter training in the airplanes at night. Wait for the last flight n and grab the plane and go. After the Business Express accident, they made us fly IFR. It upset the controls to no end doing endless approaches in the middle of the night.

LOL... I did my BA-3200 type ride at Dade Collier in the wee hours, my DHC-7 type ride in the wee hours at ALB and my ATR ride in the sim at Flight Safety in Wilmington. The first 2 were actually fun.....

The ATR sim, not so much.