SI Authorization Withdrawn after Medical expires?

B

Brandon B

Filing Flight Plan
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Brandon B
I currently have a 1st Class Medical. My hope was to be able to fly for the Airlines one day. Before I stated flight training I opted to get a 1st Class medical because I have a history of Cancer and an arrest for Marijuana in the past. I wanted to see if I was healthy enough for a 1st Class before ever starting flight training.

Luckily working with my AME for over a year we were able to get a 1st class SI issued. I have since received my Private Pilots license and was about to start commercial training when Life and finances got in the way. My SI requires 14 Urine screens per year and meeting my AME every 6 months.

It costs me about 15% of my take home pay just to keep my medical and because of that I haven't been able to fly. Unless something happens where I get a lot of money out of no where I don't foresee that I will ever be able to afford training for my CPL. I am considering going to basic med and giving up on my dream of ever flying for the airlines and just having the option to fly if able.

The thing I am worried about is that even though my medical cert expires every 6 months(not valid for any class) the SI Authorization doesn't expire until May 2026. I pay yearly for monitoring fees to my AME so I am paid up until May of next year.

I have seen the Domingo letter that says the FAA is not suppose to withdraw my Authorization but I have also seen a post on this forums that says someone let their cert expire and got basic med then the FAA sent a letter withdrawing their SI Authorization which makes basic med not valid.

I am torn. Do I let my medical expire next May, go on basic med, be able to fly a little, and pray I don't receive a letter from the FAA that withdraws my Authorization(because it still has 2 years until expire). Or do I spend another $10k over 2 years while not being able to afford to fly, keep doing the urine screens and comply with everything in the SI Authorization then when both my Cert and Authorization expire in May of 2026 go on basic med?

Thanks for any advice.
Brandon
 
The medical certificate and the special issuance authorization are two separate things. I don’t see how an expired medical certificate, in which the conditions of the SI were complied with until expiration of the med certificate, can be revoked. Once expired there is no medical certificate to revoke. Having held a valid, unrevoked medical allows one to participate in BM, if qualified by the examining physician and meets BM health standards.
 
Pretty sure it’s comply thru the not valid for any class date and DO NOT apply for the renewal. Notify the HIMS office and anyone who *might* proactively send info to the FAA on your behalf to not do so as the FAA may consider that a re-application and you’ll have to do it thru another cycle.

Revert to BasicMed. If/when you decide to go for a Class 3/2/1, the chain of sobriety will have been broken so expect to have to start over again. If you really want to fly for a career, find a way to increase your income.
 
Brandon B said:
I currently have a 1st Class Medical. My hope was to be able to fly for the Airlines one day. Before I stated flight training I opted to get a 1st Class medical because I have a history of Cancer and an arrest for Marijuana in the past. I wanted to see if I was healthy enough for a 1st Class before ever starting flight training.

Luckily working with my AME for over a year we were able to get a 1st class SI issued. I have since received my Private Pilots license and was about to start commercial training when Life and finances got in the way. My SI requires 14 Urine screens per year and meeting my AME every 6 months.

It costs me about 15% of my take home pay just to keep my medical and because of that I haven't been able to fly. Unless something happens where I get a lot of money out of no where I don't foresee that I will ever be able to afford training for my CPL. I am considering going to basic med and giving up on my dream of ever flying for the airlines and just having the option to fly if able.

The thing I am worried about is that even though my medical cert expires every 6 months(not valid for any class) the SI Authorization doesn't expire until May 2026. I pay yearly for monitoring fees to my AME so I am paid up until May of next year.

I have seen the Domingo letter that says the FAA is not suppose to withdraw my Authorization but I have also seen a post on this forums that says someone let their cert expire and got basic med then the FAA sent a letter withdrawing their SI Authorization which makes basic med not valid.

I am torn. Do I let my medical expire next May, go on basic med, be able to fly a little, and pray I don't receive a letter from the FAA that withdraws my Authorization(because it still has 2 years until expire). Or do I spend another $10k over 2 years while not being able to afford to fly, keep doing the urine screens and comply with everything in the SI Authorization then when both my Cert and Authorization expire in May of 2026 go on basic med?

Thanks for any advice.
Brandon
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There have been occasions where the airman intended to not renew the medical certificate and consequently did not comply with the requirements of the SI letter, resulting in the FAA withdrawing the SI. As noted in the legal interpretation, the FAA is not supposed to withdraw the SI if the medical has expired, but occasionally did so in error. In those cases, the airman can reach out to aeromedical to rescind the withdrawal. Thankfully this rare occurrence.

The advice I've been giving folks who are on an SI that requires periodic actions such as status updates or monitoring is to notify the FAA aeromedical and let them know you're no renewing the medical certificate and transitioning to BasicMed. That way there's no question of why they have received no updates. It's important to mention that if you do not have an active medical certificate or an active application for a medical certificate, do not send FAA Aeromedical any medical information.
 
It is also to know the actual expiration date of your medical. Your Class 1 expires, but then becomes a Class 2 and ultimately Class 3 before it expires. I was under the impression you needed to keep the SI going until the medical "fully" expires as a Class 3 before you stop compliance with the SI. Is this correct?
 
2nd for Brad Z's opinion. Also if your certificate says not valid for any class after a certain date, then it's not valid for any class (i.e., expired) after that date. There is no reversion to 2nd or 3rd class privileges. It's common to transition to Basic Med after an SI. Just make sure to keep up with your SI requirements while you have a valid certificate.
 
Thanks everyone for the help, I will probably end up going basic med next May when my current medical cert. expires. Also yes my medical says "not valid for any class after 5/31/24".

As much as I would love to eventually fly a jet I don't see my self getting there any time soon. Spending $5k a year for a medical while not being able to fly kinda hurts. I would much rather spend that $5k flying then dreaming of flying one day.
 
Brandon, the whole thing is based on CONTINUOUS proven sobriety. Stop testing and then instead the Cost of reentry becomes six months of testing + HIMS psychiatrist.


Check HARD to see if you are gettin the very bottom most price on testing…..
 
Brandon B said:
I currently have a 1st Class Medical. My hope was to be able to fly for the Airlines one day. Before I stated flight training I opted to get a 1st Class medical because I have a history of Cancer and an arrest for Marijuana in the past. I wanted to see if I was healthy enough for a 1st Class before ever starting flight training.

Luckily working with my AME for over a year we were able to get a 1st class SI issued. I have since received my Private Pilots license and was about to start commercial training when Life and finances got in the way. My SI requires 14 Urine screens per year and meeting my AME every 6 months.

It costs me about 15% of my take home pay just to keep my medical and because of that I haven't been able to fly. Unless something happens where I get a lot of money out of no where I don't foresee that I will ever be able to afford training for my CPL. I am considering going to basic med and giving up on my dream of ever flying for the airlines and just having the option to fly if able.

The thing I am worried about is that even though my medical cert expires every 6 months(not valid for any class) the SI Authorization doesn't expire until May 2026. I pay yearly for monitoring fees to my AME so I am paid up until May of next year.

I have seen the Domingo letter that says the FAA is not suppose to withdraw my Authorization but I have also seen a post on this forums that says someone let their cert expire and got basic med then the FAA sent a letter withdrawing their SI Authorization which makes basic med not valid.

I am torn. Do I let my medical expire next May, go on basic med, be able to fly a little, and pray I don't receive a letter from the FAA that withdraws my Authorization(because it still has 2 years until expire). Or do I spend another $10k over 2 years while not being able to afford to fly, keep doing the urine screens and comply with everything in the SI Authorization then when both my Cert and Authorization expire in May of 2026 go on basic med?

Thanks for any advice.
Brandon
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Google search FAA Domingo. This letter is a legal interpretation straight from the FAA legal department. In there you will find the following language -

"Authorizations often have a longer duration than the associated special issuance medical certificate. These longer durations are for internal FAA administrative purposes and aid the Office Aerospace Medicine with the processing of special issuance medical certificates under §67.401. The Authorization's longer duration period conveys no independent medical privilege as evidenced by the requirement for an airman to demonstrate that he remains qualified for a new special issuance medical certificate when the current special issuance medical certificate expires. As such, an airman's responsibility to comply with the terms of an unexpired Authorization - including a term that requires regular submission of medical information - terminates when the associated special issuance medical certificate expires. Because there is no reasonable basis for requiring an airman in those circumstances to provide medical information that is not needed for determining medical certification under § 67.401, the FAA would not have a basis to withdraw the Authorization.

The above interpretation is consistent with the purpose of BasicMed, to allow an airman who can meet alternate requirements to fly without holding a medical certificate."
 
bbchien said:
Brandon, the whole thing is based on CONTINUOUS proven sobriety. Stop testing and then instead the Cost of reentry becomes six months of testing + HIMS psychiatrist.


Check HARD to see if you are gettin the very bottom most price on testing…..
Click to expand...
Not sure what you mean. Are you saying if I go basic med and then want to go back to having a medical cert I have to do the testing again? That is my my AME told me, If I ever stop because I can't afford it then I will need to start from square one next time I want a medical cert.
That is the only reason I kinda want to keep going through HIMS. I have never liked to drink and only ever smoked marijuana. The FAA has me taking 14 random drug and alcohol tests per year and see a Psychiatrist once a year. According to the wording in my Authorization after this 5 years I should only have to do the drug testing after that, so that will at least cut the testing cost in half but from now until then I can't afford to fly. That is why I am considering going basic med, then I could at least afford to fly a little bit.
Also I am not sure If I will ever go to the airlines. I am 40 and by the time I build the hours and pay for all the schooling I am not sure the ROI will be worth it considering the mandatory retirement age, not to mention if I have to stay in HIMS for the rest of my life then that limits what I am able to do in the future(being on call for a urine screen cant travel for work). IF the airlines will even hire me, then the ROI is really not worth it.
That's why I am leaning towards basic med, being able to fly for fun, and give up on my dream of sitting in the left seat of a jet.
 
bbchien said:
Choice lab 770-467-6700.
Only YOU can "give up the dream", or not
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I'd like to add that Rhonda Leach is the staff member of Choice Lab that I deal with. She is a pleasure to work with.
 
Brandon B said:
Not sure what you mean. Are you saying if I go basic med and then want to go back to having a medical cert I have to do the testing again? That is my my AME told me, If I ever stop because I can't afford it then I will need to start from square one next time I want a medical cert.
That is the only reason I kinda want to keep going through HIMS. I have never liked to drink and only ever smoked marijuana. The FAA has me taking 14 random drug and alcohol tests per year and see a Psychiatrist once a year. According to the wording in my Authorization after this 5 years I should only have to do the drug testing after that, so that will at least cut the testing cost in half but from now until then I can't afford to fly. That is why I am considering going basic med, then I could at least afford to fly a little bit.
Also I am not sure If I will ever go to the airlines. I am 40 and by the time I build the hours and pay for all the schooling I am not sure the ROI will be worth it considering the mandatory retirement age, not to mention if I have to stay in HIMS for the rest of my life then that limits what I am able to do in the future(being on call for a urine screen cant travel for work). IF the airlines will even hire me, then the ROI is really not worth it.
That's why I am leaning towards basic med, being able to fly for fun, and give up on my dream of sitting in the left seat of a jet.
Click to expand...
Yes keep the testing in place while you're on BasicMed. That will make it loads easier to go back onto a HIMS SI as there will be no gaps in your monitoring, and you can prove continued abstinence throughout your BasicMed time.
 
Jon Wilder said:
Yes keep the testing in place while you're on BasicMed. That will make it loads easier to go back onto a HIMS SI as there will be no gaps in your monitoring, and you can prove continued abstinence throughout your BasicMed time.
Click to expand...
That is the whole problem, it's the cost associated with the testing and monitoring that I can't afford. I don't make a lot of expendable income, so it's either pay for a medical and not fly or use that money to fly. If I go basic med I don't foresee myself needing a medical cert for at least 5 years. If I can use that $20k towards building time then if/when I need a cert for employment then I will be in a better position to afford it when needed.
 
GREAT NEWS!!! I am going to keep my medical and not go basic med. Will make a new post about what happened because the info may be helpful to anyone in the HIMS program.
 
Brandon B said:
That is the whole problem, it's the cost associated with the testing and monitoring that I can't afford. I don't make a lot of expendable income, so it's either pay for a medical and not fly or use that money to fly. If I go basic med I don't foresee myself needing a medical cert for at least 5 years. If I can use that $20k towards building time then if/when I need a cert for employment then I will be in a better position to afford it when needed.
Click to expand...
Through Choice Lab Inc, the testing by itself only ran me $1,600/yr. If your medical is timed out, you no longer need to do the 3 month visits to your AME, but your AME will still get the test results. $1,600/yr is unaffordable?
 
Jon Wilder said:
Through Choice Lab Inc, the testing by itself only ran me $1,600/yr. If your medical is timed out, you no longer need to do the 3 month visits to your AME, but your AME will still get the test results. $1,600/yr is unaffordable?
Click to expand...
My 14 tests per year ran me $1,750 from Labcorp. It's not that it's unaffordable, it's that I have family obligations. From my expendable income that $1,750 equals about 12 hours of rental at the local club.
 
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