Shrike Commander in Alaska crashed because it was fueled wrong.

murphey said:
How did the fueler miss the sign AVIATION GASOLINE ONLY?
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The fueler might have missed it, but what was the pilot doing when a JetA truck pulled up and starts fueling his aircraft? It sounds like the pilot was nearby when all of this took place.
 
My former insurance company (which was crappy in most other respects) offered to upgrade the fill necks for free to ones that you couldn't stick a jet A nozzle in.

I've had people offer to put JET A in the Navion. The other problem is even when you're fueling it with gasoline, it's easy to leave the Navion short of fuel by about 15 gallons when topping off the mains. Also the aux tank has no visual indication that it is full other than providing a 100LL shower to the fueler. I am attuned to the sound the fuel makes as the tank reaches capacity and know to stop. For all of these reasons I either fuel the thing myself or watch the guy do it.
 
I thought the nozzles on the hoses were designed to preclude this from happening. IOW, a Jet A nozzle isn’t supposed to fit into a filler neck of a 100LL tank.
 
Greg Bockelman said:
I thought the nozzles on the hoses were designed to preclude this from happening. IOW, a Jet A nozzle isn’t supposed to fit into a filler neck of a 100LL tank.
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I was wondering that myself until I read it was fueled in Aniak.

No FBO, just another commercial operator that sells fuel out of their tanks to anyone that needs fuel.
 
I fuel my plane myself. I've never had anyone refuse to let me do this. Of course it doesn't hold much and don't take too long to fill it ...
 
Greg Bockelman said:
I thought the nozzles on the hoses were designed to preclude this from happening. IOW, a Jet A nozzle isn’t supposed to fit into a filler neck of a 100LL tank.
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Every 100LL tank I've seen is basically a large hole. I can't imagine a Jet A nozzle wouldn't fit.
 
I think at some point, there was a modification to the size of filler necks in airplanes that take 100LL. I'm guessing the Shrike was old enough not to have had a factory small opening, and never got the modification.
 
murphey said:
How did the fueler miss the sign AVIATION GASOLINE ONLY?
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sarangan said:
The fueler might have missed it, but what was the pilot doing when a JetA truck pulled up and starts fueling his aircraft? It sounds like the pilot was nearby when all of this took place.
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1) Why is Prist not a give away for the pilot?

2) Definitely need to watch the fuel truck.
 
The Commanders had an odd filler cap...….. an approximately 3" diameter machined disk with a long shank Dzus fastener thru the center, that mated with a flapper valve at the bottom of filler neck. not an easy one to modify. The piston planes and the turboprops had the same filler.
 
Greg Bockelman said:
I thought the nozzles on the hoses were designed to preclude this from happening. IOW, a Jet A nozzle isn’t supposed to fit into a filler neck of a 100LL tank.
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The duckbill is at times removable to accomodate some turbine helicopters with a narrow filler neck. Occasionally fuelers will cut corners by leaving it off.
 
N1120A said:
1) Why is Prist not a give away for the pilot?

2) Definitely need to watch the fuel truck.
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In TX, the pilot of a 421 used for medevac signed the JetA fuel ticket and didnt catch the mistake.
 
People are f****** stupid. F the pilot, F the fueler.
 
I’m in claims, there are many more that thankfully turn out ok and never make the news. FBO line guys are no longer aspiring pilot/mechanics who care to think about the difference between Jet A and 100LL, Piper Malibu and Meridian or TBM, they aren’t trained properly and the ones that are leave after a few months for 1 dollar more per hour delivering Amazon packages. Then pilots assume the line guys know what they are doing.

I’ve had many claims where the line tech just holds the nozzle over the filler port and pumps Jet A into a piston, placards be damned. It’s worse at mainly Jet serving FBOs. The desk crew(even less into aviation) assume you want Jet A and you MUST CONFIRM avgas every time. Line crews also should confirm with the pilot when they show up with the truck for anything with a propeller. Pilots should pay attention and acknowledge. Saves everyone time a grief, even on the non-smoking crater claims, it’s angry lawyers, engine exchanges and fuel system flushes at minimum.
 
^I once had a line guy run after me asking for the keys for the "inboard fuel tanks" on an SR22

..yes, the ones that say "no fuel - TKS only" in big red letters
 
As dumb as the fueler is...this ones on the pilot. Numerous opportunities to stop the accident before and after the plane was fueled. No idea how easy it is to sump the tanks after fueling on the commander, but I always do that as well as a visual inspection after fueling...even if I'm the one doing the fueling. I imagine this is a big problem on the new diesel powered aircraft. The pilot not catching the prist comment either tells me he had no clue what it was or didn't hear the question from being in a hurry. The fact he never looked at the receipt pretty much sums it up.
 
Detecting a mixture of avgas and jet a in a sumping isn't exactly obvious. There's enough blue dye accumulated there to turn anything blue and the "see if a piece of paper turns greasy" isn't commonly done nor particularly obvious even when it is done.
 
N1120A said:
1) Why is Prist not a give away for the pilot?
...
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Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe said:
Someone who ain't never flew nothing but pistons is going to know what Prist is? Something like MMO?
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:yeahthat:

Not trying to absolve the pilot, but I've never flown or had a jet/turbine aircraft refueled. If someone asked me about adding Prist to the fuel I wouldn't understand what they were talking about.

Prist is the name of the acrylic plastic windshield cleaner I use on my airplanes:
https://www.sportys.com/prist-windshield-cleaner.html
 
At our home airport, they sell avgas and jet-a. It is not uncommon for the fbo to hire young inexperienced help to fuel and man the fbo. Good help is hard to find these days. Just last week, I helped remove the single point nozzle and installed the regular nozzle on the jet-a hose on the fuel pump. I am certain the regular nozzle would fit in my old beech and cessna if I tried. Sounds to me like both the pilot and fueler were at fault.
 
3393RP said:
That occurred in 2015 at Las Cruces, NM.
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Right. The operator is out of Harlingen, TX, somehow that stuck with me.

The NTSB report for that one noticed that the duckbill nozzle is a voluntary industry standard, not a requirement.
 
What is it so hard to comprehend the pilot and fueler just f’ed up? Is it really that hard and socially unacceptable to point a finger and call it like it is. Sometimes people just f up because they are not paying attention or are lazy. whatever the cause it’s their fault.

note to self: make sure I get fueled correctly. Moving on now.
 
Tarheelpilot said:
What is it so hard to comprehend the pilot and fueler just f’ed up?
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I never f up. Never. Not no way, not no how. I didn't pinch two inner tubes trying to replace one tire this weekend. And one of didn't hold air long enough for 3 trips around the pattern, but be too low to pull back in the hangar. Nuh-uh, not me. I know how to change a tire. I even did a youtube video on it. No way I forgot about the three clamps and tried to do it like a motor cycle tire. No way. Not me. **** don't happen. I know better.
 
Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe said:
Someone who ain't never flew nothing but pistons is going to know what Prist is? Something like MMO?
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Prist is what I clean my windshield with.
shopping
 
From the article published at https://sierrahotel.net/blogs/news/a-life-lesson

In 1989 at an air show at Brown Field, San Diego; Bob Hoover took a couple of passengers up in his Shrike Commander. Just after the aircraft left the runway, at approximately 300 feet, both engines simultaneously failed. Hoover managed to land the aircraft uphill onto the side of a ravine. The aircraft was severely damaged, but he and his two passengers walked away from the crash site.
While waiting on the hillside for the rescue vehicles, Hoover walked back to the aircraft and smelled the fuel... Kerosene! A member of the ground crew had mistaken the piston engined plane for a turboprop and mis-fuelled it, directly causing the double engine failure, and the subsequent forced landing.
When Bob returned to the airfield, he walked directly over to the man who had nearly caused his death and, according to the California Fullerton News-Tribune, said:
“There isn’t a man alive who hasn’t made a mistake. But I’m positive you’ll never make this mistake again. That’s why I want to make sure that you’re the only one to refuel my plane tomorrow. I won’t let anyone else on the field touch it.”
 
Brad Smith said:
From the article published at https://sierrahotel.net/blogs/news/a-life-lesson

In 1989 at an air show at Brown Field, San Diego; Bob Hoover took a couple of passengers up in his Shrike Commander. Just after the aircraft left the runway, at approximately 300 feet, both engines simultaneously failed. Hoover managed to land the aircraft uphill onto the side of a ravine. The aircraft was severely damaged, but he and his two passengers walked away from the crash site.
While waiting on the hillside for the rescue vehicles, Hoover walked back to the aircraft and smelled the fuel... Kerosene! A member of the ground crew had mistaken the piston engined plane for a turboprop and mis-fuelled it, directly causing the double engine failure, and the subsequent forced landing.
When Bob returned to the airfield, he walked directly over to the man who had nearly caused his death and, according to the California Fullerton News-Tribune, said:
“There isn’t a man alive who hasn’t made a mistake. But I’m positive you’ll never make this mistake again. That’s why I want to make sure that you’re the only one to refuel my plane tomorrow. I won’t let anyone else on the field touch it.”
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What a great store! Thanks for posting it, I had no idea. I guess it's good that it happened to Bob Hoover, if I had been on the airplane I have would have assumed it was part of the act
 
About 5 years ago we had two mis fueling events within anmonth of each other.
First was a P-51 out of Arkansas. The pilot caught the mistake during his pre flight the next day...draining and flushing the tanks was a real pita...
The second one was worse, a Twin Commander with two new engines got fueled with jet-A. The pilot loaded his passengers, cranked up and taxied to the runway. The engines were starting to pop and bang but this guy did his runup (more popping and banging) and, to all the ramp rats in attendance amazement, took the runway and took off on 14. We watched him do a low level teardrop turnaround and literally JUST MAKE IT BACK TO RWY 32. He got towed back to the ramp where the mis-fueling was discovered.
Believe it or not, this event actually saved this guys life...
When we were removing the engines to send them out for overhaul we found the top plugs on the right engine were finger tight. The CHT probes were all loose on the right engine. And none of the engine mount to firewall bolts were safetied. The bottom inboard bolt had no nut on it and the bottom outboard was finger tight.
At some point in time that right engine was going to depart the airframe. The FBO(no longer in business) unwittingly saved this idiots bacon...

Chris
 
Brad Smith said:
From the article published at https://sierrahotel.net/blogs/news/a-life-lesson

In 1989 at an air show at Brown Field, San Diego; Bob Hoover took a couple of passengers up in his Shrike Commander. Just after the aircraft left the runway, at approximately 300 feet, both engines simultaneously failed. Hoover managed to land the aircraft uphill onto the side of a ravine. The aircraft was severely damaged, but he and his two passengers walked away from the crash site.
While waiting on the hillside for the rescue vehicles, Hoover walked back to the aircraft and smelled the fuel... Kerosene! A member of the ground crew had mistaken the piston engined plane for a turboprop and mis-fuelled it, directly causing the double engine failure, and the subsequent forced landing.
When Bob returned to the airfield, he walked directly over to the man who had nearly caused his death and, according to the California Fullerton News-Tribune, said:
“There isn’t a man alive who hasn’t made a mistake. But I’m positive you’ll never make this mistake again. That’s why I want to make sure that you’re the only one to refuel my plane tomorrow. I won’t let anyone else on the field touch it.”
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A testament to the content of the mans character.
 
Yep, there was no doubt why he commanded great respect. For a few years, I attended the a dinner for Smithsonian Air and Space donors which always had some pretty serious aviators, but there always was a referent hush when Hoover entered the room that I've seen for no other person.
 
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