Shoulder belts for 172

Discussion in 'Maintenance Bay' started by Pedals2Paddles, Nov 21, 2014.

  1. Pedals2Paddles

    Pedals2Paddles Cleared for Takeoff

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2014
    Messages:
    1,216
    Location:
    FDK
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Pedals2Paddles
    A 172K has lap belts only. I'd like to put in shoulder belts. I understand there should be mounting points for the shoulder belts already up on the cross spar? And that you should just need to cut a bolt hole in the headliner?

    If so, can we just install this? It says it is to replace the factory belts, but we don't have factory should belt. But allegedly the mounting point is there, so what difference does it make?
    http://www.alphaaviation.com/Cessna100200Replacement.html

    What is the difference between that and this, other than about $800.
    http://www.alphaaviation.com/Cessna100200.html

    As an alternative, is this the correct non-reel belt that will mount to the factory points?
    http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/appages/faabelts.php
     
  2. Stewartb

    Stewartb Final Approach

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2014
    Messages:
    6,647
    Location:
    Wasilla, AK
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    stewartb
    You Cessna probably doesn't have the necessary mounting hole in the spar carry-through for mounting a Y type shoulder harness. Not to worry, adding the hole is easy. All it requires is a drill bit and a reamer to finish the hole. If you prefer inertia reels the BAS system is the king of the market. I prefer manual adjustment and selected Hooker Harness when I converted from my stock diagonal restraint to the Y style. BAS and Hooker offer STCd products so any IA can return it to service after installation. You aren't limited to STC products if your mechanic is comfortable using AC43-13 2B chapter 9, which discusses standard practices and provides guidelines for adding shoulder restraints to an airframe. No approval required.
     
  3. TUPilot

    TUPilot Pre-takeoff checklist

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2012
    Messages:
    247
    Location:
    Maryland
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    TUPilot
    Be careful using the advisory circular--it only applies if not structural modifications are made. Most mechanics seem to think drilling into the structure, which is required by most installations, does not meet the requirements.

    Remember, its not just what your current A&P likes, it is what your next one wants to see too! An original install via STC is not going to be much more expensive and avoids future headaches.
     
  4. Pedals2Paddles

    Pedals2Paddles Cleared for Takeoff

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2014
    Messages:
    1,216
    Location:
    FDK
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Pedals2Paddles
    I had read somewhere, but couldn't cite it at the moment, that 172 built after about 1959 all had the mounting holes in the spar carry through since shoulder belts were an option. I have no way to actually verify it at the moment though.

    For the sake of discussion, lets pretend it does have the necessary mounting holes, with no additional modification to airframe required. Could this inertia reel kit be installed. It is designed to replace the factory shoulder belt, which the plane doesn't have now, but is readily equipped for from the factory. So logically, this should be a bolt on easy install.
    http://www.alphaaviation.com/Cessna1...placement.html
     
  5. Stewartb

    Stewartb Final Approach

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2014
    Messages:
    6,647
    Location:
    Wasilla, AK
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    stewartb
    Cessna standard shoulder belts were a diagonal strap coming off the outboard shoulder, not a centered Y strap. Call Hooker. The restraints aren't expensive and the install is simple.
     
  6. Stewartb

    Stewartb Final Approach

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2014
    Messages:
    6,647
    Location:
    Wasilla, AK
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    stewartb
    Not true. Acceptable structural provisions are a large part of the chapter including specific approved practices for attaching restraints to the spar carry through. That said, my Hooker install was easy and the STC price was fair. I took the path of least resistance.

    For reference, scroll to chapter 9.
    http://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/media/Advisory_Circular/AC 43.13-2B.pdf
     
  7. Tom-D

    Tom-D Taxi to Parking

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2005
    Messages:
    33,968
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Tom-D
    Doing the instal paper work this way requires a Field approval. (337) The data from the AC is acceptable to use to gain the field approval.

    Better simply to use the BAS shoulder harness kit and STC.
     

    Attached Files:

  8. Stewartb

    Stewartb Final Approach

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2014
    Messages:
    6,647
    Location:
    Wasilla, AK
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    stewartb
    Also not true. I suggest you review the opening paragraph of the AC. An IA can use any of the data in the AC as approved data for major alterations as long as the AC is properly referenced on the 337. 337s are used to document alterations. Not all alterations require STCs or field approvals, which is what the AC is all about.
     
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2014
  9. MBDiagMan

    MBDiagMan En-Route

    Joined:
    May 8, 2011
    Messages:
    3,790
    Location:
    NorthEast Texas
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Doc
    I met Jack Hooker at the Cessna 120-140 national convention last month. He's a great guy and very approachable. If you have any questions, just call him. I'm sure it's easy to find his number by googling.

    At dinner one night I asked him what led him to the shoulder harness business and the story was really fun to listen to.

    Any questions, just call him and I'm quite sure he would be really pleased to give you the straight scoop.
     
  10. frfly172

    frfly172 Touchdown! Greaser!

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2008
    Messages:
    14,475
    Location:
    mass fla
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    ron keating
    I put the bas system in my older 172 , worked great.
     
  11. Stewartb

    Stewartb Final Approach

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2014
    Messages:
    6,647
    Location:
    Wasilla, AK
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    stewartb
    Pedals,

    Here's a pic of my own C180 spar carry through with the Hooker install adjacent to an Atlee Dodge cargo net attacment install. The hat channel attachment for the Atlee part is a minor mod, the Hooker attach is by STC.
     

    Attached Files:

  12. Pedals2Paddles

    Pedals2Paddles Cleared for Takeoff

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2014
    Messages:
    1,216
    Location:
    FDK
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Pedals2Paddles
    We do have the nut plates. But now for the life of me, I can't remember if they're positioned for a center Y harness at each seat, or if they're offset to the side for a single should belt for each seat. I won't be able to verify until early next week. Can anyone with experience with a 172 should harness nut plate speak to this?

    I think it was centered over each seat, which makes one of these the ticket?
    http://store.wagaero.com/product_info.php?products_id=2437
     
  13. baboss

    baboss Pre-takeoff checklist

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2012
    Messages:
    231
    Location:
    Central IL
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Brock Boss
    Our 1967 H model has the nut plates centered above/behind the front seats for a Y harness.
     
  14. Tom-D

    Tom-D Taxi to Parking

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2005
    Messages:
    33,968
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Tom-D
    You mean this one?
    Description
    This advisory circular (AC) contains methods, techniques, and practices acceptable to the Administrator for the inspection and repair of nonpressurized areas of civil aircraft, only when there are no manufacturer repair or maintenance instructions. This data generally pertains to minor repairs. The repairs identified in this AC may only be used as a basis for FAA approval for major repairs. The repair data may also be used as approved data, and the AC chapter, page, and paragraph listed in block 8 of FAA form 337 when:
    a. the user has determined that it is appropriate to the product being repaired;
    b. it is directly applicable to the repair being made; and
    c. it is not contrary to manufacturer’s data.

    either way, the 337 must be filled out and approved.

    Plus the fact that his Cessna has manuals and is supported by its manufacturer, And data in the AC is superseded by the manufacturer's data.

    Either way the AC can not be used with out approval by the FSDO.
     
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2014
  15. Stewartb

    Stewartb Final Approach

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2014
    Messages:
    6,647
    Location:
    Wasilla, AK
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    stewartb
    That isn't an accurate quote of the document, it's a fabrication. I don't know what your agenda is in misleading folks. Perhaps you don't understand it yourself? Don't believe me... go ask your local FSDO.
     
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2014
  16. saulico

    saulico Pre-Flight

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2007
    Messages:
    48
    Location:
    San Francisco Bay Area
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    saulico
  17. Tom-D

    Tom-D Taxi to Parking

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2005
    Messages:
    33,968
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Tom-D
    The Paragraph I quoted came directly from the AC copied and pasted here.

    My agenda here is to point out bull shi- when it is posted as fact.

    All major alterations/modifications must be documented by use of the 337 form.