Should you lead a parallel holding pattern entry?

[Skid]

If you were to approach the holding fix at a 90* angle to the inbound leg on a parallel entry, should you lead the turn to the outbound course or cross over the holding fix first? Looking at the AIM it seems like you should anticipate the turn and fly as close to the inbound leg as possible:

(a) Parallel Procedure. When approaching the holding fix from anywhere in sector (a), the parallel entry procedure would be to turn to a heading to parallel the holding course outbound on the nonholding side for one minute, turn in the direction of the holding pattern through more than 180 degrees, and return to the holding fix or intercept the holding course inbound.

Reason I ask, is that it would seem that if you delayed until over the holding fix, your 90* turn would put you fairly far off into the non-protected side.

Thoughts?

 

[mscard88]

Cross the fix and turn. GPS however, does lead turns.

 

[Tantalum]

I was taught to cross the fix as well and then turn, using the turn twist time throttle talk method. Obviously you want to be on your game though and not keep on cruising after the fix, as you're right, it put you outside of protected area if you do that

leading the turn slightly is okay, but if you start the turn very early and never really get over the fix, then technically how do you really make sure you are in the hold and in the right spot spatially? In theory you are waiting or the to from indicator to flop over.. and should be tracking more or less right to it..

GPS kind of spoils us because it's very easy to know where you are on a big beautiful map, but if you break it down to the basics then there's a reason you are taught fly over the fix first

 

[luvflyin]

If you were to approach the holding fix at a 90* angle to the inbound leg on a parallel entry, should you lead the turn to the outbound course or cross over the holding fix first? Looking at the AIM it seems like you should anticipate the turn and fly as close to the inbound leg as possible:

(a) Parallel Procedure. When approaching the holding fix from anywhere in sector (a), the parallel entry procedure would be to turn to a heading to parallel the holding course outbound on the nonholding side for one minute, turn in the direction of the holding pattern through more than 180 degrees, and return to the holding fix or intercept the holding course inbound.

Reason I ask, is that it would seem that if you delayed until over the holding fix, your 90* turn would put you fairly far off into the non-protected side.

Thoughts?

I cross the Fix then turn. And I add 10 degrees for right turns or subtract 10 for left turns to/from the outbound course to get my outbound heading. Maybe more, maybe less depending on the wind. There is a lot of protected airspace on the non holding side. It’s not all that much less than the holding side. Fig. 5-3-7 in the AIM gives a pretty good picture of it.

 

[MauleSkinner]

As @luvflyin said, the protected airspace on the “unprotected”side is almost as wide as the protected side. The size of the protected airspace was developed when there was no accurate way to lead the turn, so the assumption was that you can’t.

 

[luvflyin]

As @luvflyin said, the protected airspace on the “unprotected”side is almost as wide as the protected side. The size of the protected airspace was developed when there was no accurate way to lead the turn, so the assumption was that you can’t.

Yeah. I wouldn't use the phrase 'unprotected side' though. The whole point is that it is protected. It's the non holding side

 

[Tarheelpilot]

No one cares outside of a checkride as long as you’re in protected airspace.

 

[bobmrg]

If you were to approach the holding fix at a 90* angle to the inbound leg on a parallel entry, should you lead the turn to the outbound course or cross over the holding fix first? Looking at the AIM it seems like you should anticipate the turn and fly as close to the inbound leg as possible:

(a) Parallel Procedure. When approaching the holding fix from anywhere in sector (a), the parallel entry procedure would be to turn to a heading to parallel the holding course outbound on the nonholding side for one minute, turn in the direction of the holding pattern through more than 180 degrees, and return to the holding fix or intercept the holding course inbound.

Reason I ask, is that it would seem that if you delayed until over the holding fix, your 90* turn would put you fairly far off into the non-protected side.

Bob

Thoughts?

Unless you are flying at a couple of hundred knots with a humonguous turning radius, there is plenty of protected airspace on the non-protected side. The smallest template (2000' agl) allows two miles. No wind, of course, but it would take quite a bit of wind to blow you two miles downwind.

Bob

 

[Clip4]

Normally cross the fix, but do what ever you want as long as you remain in the protected area. The entries are not regulatory.

 

[unsafervguy]

let see.. select hold button, enter fix, enter hold radial, select left or right turns, enter leg length, enter speed, hit enter and watch what it does.......

 

[luvflyin]

Unless you are flying at a couple of hundred knots with a humonguous turning radius, there is plenty of protected airspace on the non-protected side. The smallest template (2000' agl) allows two miles. No wind, of course, but it would take quite a bit of wind to blow you two miles downwind.

Bob

Yeah. Given that the airspace to be protected is calculated based on 200 knots 6000 and below, then 230 knots up to 14000 and 265 knots above that, the typical bug smasher has to go out of their way or just plain get lost to exceed the protected airspace. They can reduce the speed but if it is, it's clearly marked on the chart. The speeds are indicated. They take into account a range of possible winds. I don't remember what it is other than it's fast enough I wouldn't be up there to begin with. Paging @aterpster , do you recall what the anticipated wind is when building Holding Patterns?