Should PoA members be a reflection of the MC?

[Jim Logajan]

I wrote the following in reply to a post in the "Should the SZ stay?" thread, but by the time I'd finished composing it that thread had been moved to the SZ!

Folks, if you want to discuss this topic, it needs to be done in the Spin Zone.

There is no rule in the Rules of Conduct that seems to exclude a thread such as this from Hangar Talk. If you insist on making up rules or outrageous interpretations, I guess there is nothing to stop you. Just as nothing stops you from STILL not enforcing rules you write. (E.g. one says something about banning someone who post links to pornography.)

It is pretty clear to me (yeah, like the MC cares what I think) that the members of the MC are out of touch with members like myself - or are beholden to a minority that demand control of others because that minority have so little control of what goes on in their own heads.

An example of out-of-touch: as far as I can tell, on the last replacement of a member to the MC the 21,000+ members of PoA were excluded from any input as to who that replacement should be. No call for nominations (that I saw). No election. No vetting except within the insular MC. Which is odd, considering that it is the posters and readers of PoA that are literally its sine qua non. The MC should at best be a facilitator that is a reflection of the membership - not the other way around. But the MC clearly wants the PoA membership to be a reflection of the MC, as evidenced by the self-serving rules.

 

[AggieMike88]

I disagree.... having met nearly all of them, what you say isn't the case.

 

[Jim Logajan]

I disagree.... having met nearly all of them, what you say isn't the case.

I can only judge them according to the effect their actions on PoA have on me as a member. In that way I think I have a more objective view than you - at least a 1/21,000 view.

Besides, since you've met nearly all of them you may already have some influence. I have had zero. Their philosophies are unequivocally not mine and with the insular membership of the MC it will always be that way.

 

[EdFred]

There's also nothing stopping you from starting your own message board and having whatever rules you want over there.

There has never been a vote for MC. This isn't a democracy, or even a republic. It's an oligarchy - and it's been that way since day 1. Deal with it, and quit being a whiny 12 year old.

"Waaaaah, I didn't get any say on a message board I don't contribute any money to. Waaaaaaahhhhh. I want a poooonnnnyyyyyyyyyy!!!!!"

 

[Let'sgoflying!]

I think their freedom to do what they want should be directly related to their charitable contributions of time and mental effort. Oh, wait - it is all charitable free time & effort; they get paid squat.

In other words this is not a paid job for POA mods/admins - we need to remember they are all volunteers, & we should be making it as easy as possible for them.

"It's their website, they can run it however they want. If I don't like it I am free to hit the door and go make one the way I want it."

 

[eman1200]

What the frick is going on with this crap? Mods made a decision that came with an explanation and that's that. I can't believe people are getting so flippin worked up over this. Actually, kinda sad.

 

[DJTorrente]

quit being a whiny 12 year old.

"Waaaaah, I didn't get any say on a message board I don't contribute any money to. Waaaaaaahhhhh. I want a poooonnnnyyyyyyyyyy!!!!!"

Hey MC, a casual use of the search function indicated this poster hasn't participated in the SZ for months.

Is this example of decorum and camaraderie the fault of the SZ too?

 

[EdFred]

I calls 'em like I sees 'em.

Speaking of camaraderie, I don't recall meeting you at any PoA fly ins - of course I've only been to 30 of them - not including the small get togethers.

 

[Jim Logajan]

There's also nothing stopping you from starting your own message board and having whatever rules you want over there.

There is nothing stopping me (yet) from first trying to see if enough others feel as I do and determining whether there is any possibility at all in members having some say in the way PoA is managed. Otherwise starting yet another forum whose management is directed by the members IS the alternative. Though starting with an existing membership is better. The fact that you are afraid of anyone suggesting the idea of change is, um, curious but otherwise your fears are of no interest to me.

There has never been a vote for MC. This isn't a democracy, or even a republic. It's an oligarchy - and it's been that way since day 1.

And if George Washington owned slaves, why can't we still own them?

Deal with it, and quit being a whiny 12 year old.

"Waaaaah, I didn't get any say on a message board I don't contribute any money to. Waaaaaaahhhhh. I want a poooonnnnyyyyyyyyyy!!!!!"

I've offered to financially support PoA in the past - and you well know they have refused such contributions. At least from anyone outside the oligarchy.

What is interesting is that to anyone applying an honest assessment would recognize that your last few sentences violate the rule "Personal attacks are prohibited. This specifically means any text/post that is blatantly attacking another person, on or off the forum, especially in a personal way. Make your point without calling names or casting aspersions on others." But I don't expect (nor want) anything to befall you for your lame attempt at a straw man insult.

 

[Jim Logajan]

I calls 'em like I sees 'em.

Speaking of camaraderie, I don't recall meeting you at any PoA fly ins - of course I've only been to 30 of them - not including the small get togethers.

I haven't seen you at any of the PoA fly ins I've been to, either. At least one that I had a small had in organizing. Though I have met someone who you've met personally and got spontaneously offered their opinion of you. Ahem.

 

[Gerhardt]

I don't think I've seen a post of EdFred's in quite a while. Always thought he was a character. Reminded me of someone on the red board. The pickle guy.

 

[Jim Logajan]

What the frick is going on with this crap? Mods made a decision that came with an explanation and that's that. I can't believe people are getting so flippin worked up over this. Actually, kinda sad.

I'm curious - why does this thread cause you emotional distress?

If it helps any, maybe think of it as a way to measure whether yet another pilot forum should be created whose management is more egalitarian? Be nice if this one would be, but I already see that some people experience considerable angst at the idea.

 

[EdFred]

I haven't seen you at any of the PoA fly ins I've been to, either. At least one that I had a small had in organizing. Though I have met someone who you've met personally and got spontaneously offered their opinion of you. Ahem.

Oh, please share, this should be good.

Odd that someone who has never met me would even bring me up in conversation all the way across the country so that another person would let them how much of an ******* I am. Things must be pretty boring out there that I would come up in any sort of discussion.

 

[Gerhardt]

Things must be pretty boring out there that I would come up in any sort of discussion.

I had the same thought. :wink2:

 

[steingar]

I've been to a number of POA functions (though certainly not all) and met mostly really nice people who have down a great dealt to maintain my own faith in America. I just fell like I'm seeing the bright side of America every time I goto a fly-in. I've met many of the MC and been really impressed with what nice people they were. And I actually have had negligible financial contributions accepted for upkeep of the site, something I was happy to do.

I've made no secret of my own disagreement with the MC regarding their decision about the Spin Zone. But I will make even less of a secret about my respect for the MC, who give of their time to make the board work. If enough people really feel that strongly they can form their own site. We're all here voluntarily. I think POA will not be as vibrant and as frequented in the absence of the Spin Zone, but it will still be POA.

And if my name comes up in conversation then you know things are really bad.

 

[EdFred]

And if my name comes up in conversation then you know things are really bad.

You know how many bad fly-ins I've been to ?

 

[steingar]

You know how many bad fly-ins I've been to ?

That is the scariest thought I've had in a long time. That folks don't have anything better to do than talk about little ol' me.

Then again, may be I was right. Maybe it really does all revolve around me.

 

[Gerhardt]

You know how many bad fly-ins I've been to ?

None.






until you arrived

 

[Clark1961]

That is the scariest thought I've had in a long time. That folks don't have anything better to do than talk about little ol' me.

Then again, may be I was right. Maybe it really does all revolve around me.

Naw, we just needed a laugh.

(admit it, you walked right into that one)

 

[steingar]

Naw, we just needed a laugh.

(admit it, you walked right into that one)

I've been accused of being many, many things. Boring was never one of them (unless you're talking to my students, that is).

 

[EdFred]

None.






until you arrived

Personal attack! Personal Attack!!! Mods. I want this person bannnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnned. Banned I tell you!!!

*stomps feet*
*throws self on ground*

 

[EdFred]

I've been accused of being many, many things. Boring was never one of them (unless you're talking to my students, that is).

What was that? I fell asleep reading your post.

 

[dell30rb]

Disagree with removing SZ

 

[steingar]

What was that? I fell asleep reading your post.

Yeah, all those big words. Sorry.

Figures, coming form a Michigina.

 

[EdFred]

Yeah, all those big words. Sorry.

Figures, coming form a Michigina.

Post reported for using a Natalie Portmanteau as a personal attack in a disparaging manner!

How's the Mooney anyway?

 

[steingar]

How's the Mooney anyway?

Fast and fun. Every once in awhile the J-bar still pops up in flight, happened under the local Class Charlie and made thing interesting for a few minutes.

I plan on starting IFR training after my Spring semester. The aircraft has an NDB and a VOR with glideslope, but that's it. It has a VFR GPS/comm which can be slaved to the heading-only autopilot. Should be fun.

 

[SixPapaCharlie]

I've met ed Fred and aside from the weirdest drinking problem I've ever seen, he seems like a great guy. I'd let him watch my kids.

 

[ollopa]

I'd let him watch my kids.

 

[EdFred]

I've met ed Fred and aside from the weirdest drinking problem I've ever seen, he seems like a great guy. I'd let him watch my kids.

You say problem, I say talent.

 

[JoeSelch]

There is nothing stopping me (yet) from first trying to see if enough others feel as I do and determining whether there is any possibility at all in members having some say in the way PoA is managed. Otherwise starting yet another forum whose management is directed by the members IS the alternative. Though starting with an existing membership is better. The fact that you are afraid of anyone suggesting the idea of change is, um, curious but otherwise your fears are of no interest to me.

...snipped...

I do not feel as you do.

 

[Sam D]

I do not feel as you do.

Me neither.

(Reminds me of that country song.)

 

[flyingron]

Moderators generally must be held to a higher standard than the rabble they moderate.
I have no reason to believe in the eight years I've been active on this forum that this is not the case here.

 

[Gerhardt]

Moderators generally must be held to a higher standard than the rabble they moderate.
I have no reason to believe in the eight years I've been active on this forum that this is not the case here.

Amen. I'm impressed with their patience and maturity. And every now and then they'll even add something worthwhile to a discussion. :wink2:

 

[SkyHog]

Oh, please share, this should be good.

Odd that someone who has never met me would even bring me up in conversation all the way across the country so that another person would let them how much of an ******* I am. Things must be pretty boring out there that I would come up in any sort of discussion.

You come up in every POA get together....

You're POA famous.

 

[FastEddieB]

I've met ed Fred and aside from the weirdest drinking problem I've ever seen, he seems like a great guy.

Not that uncommon among pilots.

 

[Frogs97]

I see this a lot on a lot of different kinds of boards. The answer to the question in your subject is "Yes ... if that's what they want." It's their site, and sometimes "because I said so" is all they need. There's no affiliated organization like AOPA, there are no rules of incorporation, no shareholders or governing body ... they created a site that they will run in any way they darn well please.

 

[EdFred]

You come up in every POA get together....

You're POA famous.

Then I need my own reality tv show, and a perfume line, and...

Jesse, get on it!

 

[Jim Logajan]

Oh, please share, this should be good.

They just didn't think all that much of some of your traits. Nothing worse than that; I have dislikable traits too. I suspect the only reason you probably inferred worse from my post is because you started with belittling straw-man argument and expected something in return.

Odd that someone who has never met me would even bring me up in conversation all the way across the country so that another person would let them how much of an ******* I am. Things must be pretty boring out there that I would come up in any sort of discussion.

You came up at a get-together where sometimes discussions of other people on the forum come up. I wouldn't have mentioned it at all, but you did ask about how many PoA fly-ins I'd been to and your post was all about the whining personalities behind the posts rather than the arguments in the posts.

I haven't subscribed to the Spin Zone in years and don't use it, but thought it worth the effort as a non-user to defend its existence on behalf of the people who did enjoy using it. But defending it is pretty much impossible under the given management scheme - so first step is to determine whether that scheme can ever be replaced with some other responsive organization, equivalent to, say, a representative republic.

 

[Jim Logajan]

there are no rules of incorporation, no shareholders or governing body

My understanding is that there is a legal entity - either a non-profit corporation (if I recall correctly,) though maybe it is an LLC.

... they created a site that they will run in any way they darn well please.

Of course. The question is why anyone would object to requests for changes to the way it is run?

 

[Clark1961]

The question is why anyone would object to requests for changes to the way it is run?

Because the changes you request require more time and effort by the volunteers.