pilot_dude
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pilot_dude
Left a couple years ago and never looked back. The only thing I miss is the mailbox full of junk mail from them. Wait, I don't miss that either.
Should I renew AOPA membership?
- Thread starter Flying h4x0r
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SkyHog
Touchdown! Greaser!
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Everything Offends Me
If it helps to understand the problem, I get these notices too, urging me to "renew" ASAP, but I don't have any form of insurance on an airplane.
Its most certainly a scam.
steingar
Taxi to Parking
I wasn't planning on renewing this year. I just am not convinced AOPA continues to represent my interests, and am unimpressed with the results of their lobbying efforts. I don't like their magazine that much, and was displeased with the unsolicited DVD.
All that said, I really don't feel they've been that big a pain with mailings or anything. Some of them have barely been on this side of loopy, though (wine club anyone?). Their occasional solicitations have not left a bad taste in my mouth at all.
All that said, I really don't feel they've been that big a pain with mailings or anything. Some of them have barely been on this side of loopy, though (wine club anyone?). Their occasional solicitations have not left a bad taste in my mouth at all.
Skylane81E
Final Approach
Airport is in Blue Ash (suburb of Cincinnati) but owned by Cincinnati. Blue Ash wants to build a park and golf holes on the airport property so they make moves to buy all airport land except the runway. They cite one of the options on file on the airport master plan to reconfigure the airport as such. Airport comunity gets worried as the plan they selected was rejected by the FAA because, well you can't fit an airport on that little land, but the AOPA comes in and after closed door meetings with Cincinnait and Blue Ash endorces the deal, even prints a bit in the mag stating that they have SAVED ISZ!!! Once AOPA is on board all oposition to the plan dies and the deal goes through. Land is sold and Cincinnati requestes FAA funds to reconfigure the airport and surprise of surprises the FAA says no, can't do that. March 2012 is the deadline to keep the airport, we will find out shortly if we have to find a new home.
Bottom line either through deliberate action or compleate incompotence the AOPA sold out my airport (one of the oldest in the world to boot) to be developed into a park, golf, and a performing arts center.
I want no part of them!
steingar
Taxi to Parking
Yeah, I forgot about that. One of my favorite airports for bagel runs, and a very nice one to boot.
timwinters
Ejection Handle Pulled
Apparently he did. It was obviously a scam and something they've proven recently that they're not above doing and/or being affiliated with. One additional notable example is allowing ads for Claroxin in the magazine. This is a scam product that claims it can remarkably improve your eyesight in as little as two weeks. AOPA, by allowing such scams to be aimed at their members, confirms that they are far more interested in their own back pocket than looking out for the wellbeing of their membership.
But it doesn't help to ***** about it here. I plan to put their feet to the fire (and take them to task) this year and have them prove to me that they are still OUR advocates. I'm giving them a chance to perform but perform they must or...you guessed it...I'm gone. I'll make two demands.
1. That they quit using and/or allowing scam tactics aimed at their members.
2. That they convince the FAA to show stadiums/venues with seating ^30,000 on the charts so we know where they're at and have a chance to avoid them when they're covered by a TFR. I'm starting with this one because it is SIMPLE and if they can't get this done then they'll have proven to me that they've become completely ineffectual and are a waste of my time and money.
I plan to tell them that if they don't complete these two tasks (or show significant progress towards completion) that I will not renew next August. They have 9 months, that should be ample time.
But, as with government, my lone voice doesn't carry much weight. A chorus of voices would be far more effective.
So, if anyone is interested in joining me then I would entertain:
1. Making this a petition/demand letter, taking electronic signatures and forwarding it along to AOPA.
and
2. Including other issues that YOU feel need to be addressed by AOPA (or issues that AOPA has) and that should be included in the letter.
Let me know, otherwise I'll just fly solo on this one.
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wabower
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Wayne
What is AOPA's position with respect to this outcome? Do they acknowledge screwing the pooch or have a different take on the deal?
Skylane81E
Final Approach
No action or word since they "Saved ISZ!" I get the distinct impressin they don't give a rodents rear
Skylane81E
Final Approach
Best of luck buddy, but for reasons stated above I'm out
timwinters
Ejection Handle Pulled
LIKE!
I fully understand, Dunc. I remember the stories you were telling as the events were unfolding. I don't blame you one bit. They sold you guys out big time.
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Skylane81E
Final Approach
AOPA sent me lots of unsolicited things when I didn't renew, along with bills for said items.
I kept them all, I kinda like the 172/182 coin they sent me a while back. Wanted me to pay for it or send it back. Screw it, Ohio law says that if I didn't ask for it it's a gift and I don't have to pay OR return
wabower
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Wayne
Ya think? Can anybody explain why it would be in the association's best interest to do that?
If they did and are ducking the responsibility doing so, that's obviously unacceptable. Somebody should be able to get an answer from them.
If they did and are ducking the responsibility doing so, that's obviously unacceptable. Somebody should be able to get an answer from them.
LIKE!
I fully understand, Dunc. I remember the stories you were telling as the events were unfolding. I don't blame you one bit. They sold you guys out big time.
SkyHog
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Everything Offends Me
I doubt anyone would read malicious intent into their actions. Perhaps incompetence driven by the mad desire to take credit for anything they can (look at the DC SFRA changes and reporting it as their work when they didn't even know the change was coming).
I can say this - I renewed my membership last year, then when it expired last month, I didn't hesitate to let it lapse again. In the last year, AOPA did exactly 0 things for aviation. That's a pretty crappy place to throw money, IMHO.
Skylane81E
Final Approach
Best intrests to sweep it under the table and hope it goes away. What the membership doesn't know won't hurt AOPA
Skylane81E
Final Approach
It's possible, but requires some reach without any real evidence.
The argument has been made that Boyer and Hal Shevers are on good terms and that Hals biggest competion for student pilots falls under my wrench.
Not sure I belive it though. I think that idiotic AOPA folks got suckered in by two cities that don't want the airport. But in the end it doesn't matter, they failed where it matters most, user fees and airspace issues are important but if they take away your airport what's it matter
wabower
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Wayne
I wouldn't think the association is so naive as to think they could bury this issue if they are in fact culpable in the airport's demise. I'm no longer active on their forum, but somebody should be able to obtain their official position on this issue.
It's possible, but requires some reach without any real evidence.
The argument has been made that Boyer and Hal Shevers are on good terms and that Hals biggest competion for student pilots falls under my wrench.
Not sure I belive it though. I think that idiotic AOPA folks got suckered in by two cities that don't want the airport. But in the end it doesn't matter, they failed where it matters most, user fees and airspace issues are important but if they take away your airport what's it matter
Skylane81E
Final Approach
if you learn anything I'd be interested to find out
kontiki
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Kontiki
Someone once told me you can't rent a Congressman, you gotta buy them, and they aint cheap.
Seriously, I maintain AOPA and EAA memberships to support lobby efforts.
They also have useful training and safety information too. New pilots like myself learn so much from the these organizations. Every activity is a place to network with pilots, which also helps (like this website)
New pilots in a vacume would really have a hard time.
Seriously, I maintain AOPA and EAA memberships to support lobby efforts.
They also have useful training and safety information too. New pilots like myself learn so much from the these organizations. Every activity is a place to network with pilots, which also helps (like this website)
New pilots in a vacume would really have a hard time.
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Bob Noel
I think it might help if former members also signed such a letter.
Tom-D
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Tom-D
Anyone remember the Pizzing contest between AOPA and the EAA about leader salaries?
That really turned me off. Then I realized how they raise that much money and how it could be better used, so, in my little protest I quit supporting the organization that I feel is misusing my money.
Just remember it ain't the 40 bucks, it is the attitude of the leadership.
That really turned me off. Then I realized how they raise that much money and how it could be better used, so, in my little protest I quit supporting the organization that I feel is misusing my money.
Just remember it ain't the 40 bucks, it is the attitude of the leadership.
Skylane81E
Final Approach
Atleast EAA doesn't claim to be non profit
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Bob Gardner
Yes. Pilots are a vanishingly small minority and we need a voice in the halls of government...we get kicked around enough as it is. Do you read the articles about airports being saved from extinction in the PILOT magazine? Do you read any of the articles about the AOPA intervening when pilot issues are at stake?
I participate in a Fodors travel forum. There is one guy who never fails to take a swipe at general aviation pilots and AOPA's heavy-handed influence on Congress. Say what?
Bob Gardner
I participate in a Fodors travel forum. There is one guy who never fails to take a swipe at general aviation pilots and AOPA's heavy-handed influence on Congress. Say what?
Bob Gardner
wabower
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Wayne
Not-for-profit is simply an IRS filing status that has little to do with profitability. Don't make the mistake of getting wrapped around the axle on that issue.
Skylane81E
Final Approach
I'm not, as you know I have bigger fish to fry
steingar
Taxi to Parking
AOPA sent me lots of unsolicited things when I didn't renew, along with bills for said items.
I kept them all, I kinda like the 172/182 coin they sent me a while back. Wanted me to pay for it or send it back. Screw it, Ohio law says that if I didn't ask for it it's a gift and I don't have to pay OR return
If I'd have known might have kept it for spite, but I didn't want the DVD anyway.
No AOPA for me.
MBDiagMan
Final Approach
Come on! It's only $40 a year. The magazine, the lobbying and they served me well for insurance and title search/escrow when I bought my plane.
Also, I think I used my AOPA log in for downloading the A/FD onto my IPhone for free.
Doc
Also, I think I used my AOPA log in for downloading the A/FD onto my IPhone for free.
Doc
ClimbnSink
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Greg
Hey I'm saving that $40 to cover user fees.
timwinters
Ejection Handle Pulled
I may have missed it but, unfortunately Wayne, I don't think AOPA responds to any issues brought to their attention on their forum. Many people have brought up issues like this one and the only response I've seen is crickets.
$1.00 is too much IF they're pi$$ing it away.
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denverpilot
Tied Down
If the organization is doing anything of value for the members, that should be the majority of the content in the magazine.
Jim Logajan
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.
Looks like they need $32 of that $40 to cover the cost of the magazine. Ads and other income are needed to pay for "advocacy" and such. Their financials don't give any indication of effectiveness one way or another, but is the first place one should start:
http://www.aopa.org/info/governance/2010_AOPA_Audited_Financials.pdf
wabower
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Wayne
Absolutely not. A high percentage of favorable lobbying efforts are never publicized, and for good reason.
wabower
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Wayne
Wouldn't that philosophy eliminate about 90% of GA flying?
airdale
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airdale
Ron, do you know of any objective data concerning the political effectiveness of AOPA? The relentless chest-thumping and self-promotion that dominate the magazine seem to be what most people are basing their opinions on.
Re all the solicitations for money, most people don't seem to be aware of the huge pile of cash that AOPA is sitting on. As of the 2009 tax return, which is the last one I have seen, the stash was $76,000,000. That is seven years of dues income and approximately four times the total assets of the Air Safety Foundation. So when they are bleating about the need to support ASF and holding bake sales, the truth is that AOPA could easily double or triple the size of ASF without putting itself in any financial jeopardy at all.
AOPA has a very steady and predictable income and has no need for such a huge pile of cash. Given that AOPA management also picks their own bosses, this is a classic precursor to financial malfeasance.
wabower
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Wayne
Speculation.
timwinters
Ejection Handle Pulled
Good point, he did indeed, but most of the time, on lesser volatile issues brought up by individuals, it's the sound of crickets.
By the way...it wasn't a smear...look behind the curtain, behind Craig's smoke and mirrors, and AvWeb's article was pretty accurate.
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denverpilot
Tied Down
Don't be surprised if people think nothing good is happening and don't renew, then.
Most people demand more transparency in their chosen places to send money these days. If the organization claims to be a lobby, they'd better post what they lobby about and when they win.
If they're really not a lobby, they'd better stop claiming that's why they need money.
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airdale
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airdale
Nope. Statement of fact. Unsupervised access to large amounts of money often leads to waste or theft. It would have been speculation if I had suggested that Fuller or Yodice is likely to misuse the hoard or steal from it.
wabower
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Wayne
How often? A real threat or "chicken little" gadfly mentality? Who says it's unsupervised? Where's the big hole in internal control that you're so worried about? How much does it take to be a "large amount" by your standards? Why would they be more likely to steal, or why would it be easier just because there's more rather than less?
airdale
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airdale
I don't think you've ever run a real business. If you had, you'd recognize the risk in the situation.