Should I pull the trigger...

Because every place I seem to want to go, is right on the damn crease of the chart. Or I need like 18 IFR low enroutes for a 400nm trip.
 
Paper is fine until you start flying a lot of different places. Then it gets really annoying because you need a LOT of paper.

I bought an AnywhereMap on a Samsung tablet PC that has the WxWorx and the GPS. The PocketPlates are nifty but it does take some getting used to. The GPS software takes some getting used to as well. I keep paper around as a backup, but I don't keep it up to date. I've been very happy with it overall. The ChartBook was the other option I was looking at. The reason I went with the AnywhereMap was because I got a very good deal on it from a friend. Having a solution that has charts, plates, GPS, and XM weather all in one is great.

I'd say go for it. I'm glad I did.
 
Ted DuPuis said:
Paper is fine until you start flying a lot of different places. Then it gets really annoying because you need a LOT of paper.
Click to expand...

Yeah, the pile o' paper definately gets big -- but I'm ok with old or even not having a TPP for areas I am unlikely to need except in an emergency. Then I'll be asking ATC for updates, etc anyway.

Last time I diverted I had the updated TPP but did not have the NOTAM -- CLE CTR kindly read me the NOTAM which raised straight in mins to 1400 (as opposed to 1100')

I'm glad I asked!
 
Right, and for most people the general vicinity might fall under one or two books, for which it's not a problem. If you travel a lot further, it is. Let's see, what states have I been to in the past few months... Pennsylvania, New York, New Hampshire, Maine, North Carolina, South Carolina, Georgia, Michigan, Wisconsin, Iowa... that's a bunch of different books. And at the end of this month I'm heading to Utah, at least that's the plan. So add to that list Texas, New Mexico, Utah, Missouri, and probably a few others.

Mari probably thinks I'm whining given the fact that she visited as many states last week than I have in the past few months, but I also don't know what she uses. The electronic stuff is really nice. I just bring the AnywhereMap home with me, hit "Update", and all my charts get downloaded automatically.
 
Ted DuPuis said:
Right, and for most people the general vicinity might fall under one or two books, for which it's not a problem. If you travel a lot further, it is. Let's see, what states have I been to in the past few months... Pennsylvania, New York, New Hampshire, Maine, North Carolina, South Carolina, Georgia, Michigan, Wisconsin, Iowa... that's a bunch of different books. And at the end of this month I'm heading to Utah, at least that's the plan. So add to that list Texas, New Mexico, Utah, Missouri, and probably a few others.
Click to expand...


I used to buy Low Alt IFR Charts but have since switched to the Low Altitude planning chart (National coverage). That coupled with a Garmin 496 provides all the chart coverage I need.

But Approach Plates -- that's where EFBs shine, certainly. :yesnod:
 
Ed,

I purchased this one and received it on Christmas Eve.

https://www.seattleavionics.com/default.aspx

The $1095 is the same computer, with slightly different options and of course different software. I figured if I really don't like their software I can by the EFB suite from Flightprep and run it on the computer I have for less cost than the chartbook package.

The computer is available without software, i.e. you can add your own chart download, favorite planner, etc from here.

http://www.ctlcorp.com/v4/p-732-ctl...-hard-drive-with-windows-xp-professional.aspx

That being said differences are Chartbook has Solid State Drive standard it is an option ~$300 from Seattle Avionics. The chartbook also claims an enhanced screen which I cannot find available on either of the other sites.

Flightprep sells the Yoke mount from RAM cheaper than RAM and has a kneeboard / Velcro belt option available.

I have not yet flown with it except hooked up with FSX so I have not posted a pirep on it's performance. I have been moderately impressed with the flight planner versus the free versions from Seattle Avionics and FLightPrep that I had been using.

I decided to get a usable computer with all of the charts in the plane and print the ones I want in hard copy which on an annual basis looks liek a wash in cost compared to what I paid for last year.
 
I also have the Seattle Avionics SkyPad. I checked out all the major players at Oshkosh '09 (FlightPrep, AnywhereMap, Garmin, Bendix/King and Seattle Avionics). By far, Seattle Avionics was my choice. Since then, I have used the SkyPad for ~100 hours including approaches down to fairly low minimums. I'm even more of a fan now than I was when I first purchased it. Here is a short pirep....

SkyPad
+ Great having one unit for all your flying prepwork. I do my flight planning (mostly IFR) and weather briefings with it. The weather briefings are really quite good as the Skypad downloads just about every chart I could want.

+ W&B. Once the flight planning is done I do the weight and balance on the Skypad module. Nice seeing where I am in the envelope at taxi, takeoff and landing scenarios.

+ In the Air. The unit just works. No bugs or screenlockups. Turn on the GPS, turn on SkyPad, open glassview and fly. Only issue I had was one flight the SkyPad did not pickup the GPS signal right away. Issue was solved the next day with a technical call to SA (did not set my default connection correctly).

+ Ability to print "TripPacks" of my planned trip. Nice having hard copy of everything. I only print the hardcopy out now when it makes sense.

Negatives
- The Skypad (and flightprep) convertible computer is more than I need. I am happy to have a dedicated unit for flying if it meant a thinner/lighter unit. Less of an issue now that I use a leg strap instead of a yoke mount.

- Sunlight readable. The SkyPad is 300nit. Garmin 696 and Bendix/King AV8OR is ~1,000 nits. The SkyPad works fine in my Piper but there are times I have to focus a bit to read it when it is in direct sunlight.

Hope this helps a tad. I have no affiliation with Seattle Avionics other than thinking highly of their team and enjoying their SkyPad. They are good folks and the SkyPad is a heck of great unit.

Doug Wells
Salt Lake City
U42
 
If you want a cheap and easy paper package that takes up very liitle space, buy a set of Jepp RNAV charts. They handle about 90% of the need, especially with direct routings and arrivals that start 200 miles from the airport.
EdFred said:
Because every place I seem to want to go, is right on the damn crease of the chart. Or I need like 18 IFR low enroutes for a 400nm trip.
Click to expand...
 
I decided to go with the Samsung Q1 ultra and RMStek software. I've been using it since May and it's okay. Flitesoft seems to be very good for flight planning but Vista (the moving map portion of the system) does have it's limitations. The geo-referenced plates are good for SA but not perfectly accurate.

Vista seems to require 4800 baud gps data and anything faster causes a lag in position display. GPSgate software can help by resetting the apparent baud from the GPS receiver's default rate. I have an Itrek M7 WAAS receiver which defaults to 115600 baud or some ungodly rate which overwhelmed Vista. OTOH, APIC handled the data rate without a problem. I just don't like APIC's map and data presentation.

The RMStek map and plate subscription price is very reasonable compared to Garmin or King GPS's.

Avoid bluetooth like the plague for GPS and XM data feed. Something in the system can result in sudden unexplainable data loss. USB feed seems very reliable for XM weather and GPS.

In summary, I see no reason to buy a package solution. Pick and choose hardware and software to get the combination you need. I've got an SSD along with flight planing, WAAS moving map (VFR, IFR), and WASS approach, for about 2/3rds of the cost in your link. Is it perfect? NO! but it might just be good enough.
 
Ted DuPuis said:
Paper is fine until you start flying a lot of different places. Then it gets really annoying because you need a LOT of paper.
Click to expand...

A lot of paper...if you can even find it at the last minute these days. It's been quite interesting, to say the least, when I find out today that I need to be in Georgia tomorrow and the charts & plates aren't available locally because the FAA has jerked the paper out of a lot of smaller airports.

It sucks and is a real safety issue.
 
timwinters said:
A lot of paper...if you can even find it at the last minute these days. It's been quite interesting, to say the least, when I find out today that I need to be in Georgia tomorrow and the charts & plates aren't available locally because the FAA has jerked the paper out of a lot of smaller airports.

It sucks and is a real safety issue.
Click to expand...

True. My subscription often means the TPP books sit until the next cycle, because that planned trip never materialized..

:frown3:
 
timwinters said:
A lot of paper...if you can even find it at the last minute these days. It's been quite interesting, to say the least, when I find out today that I need to be in Georgia tomorrow and the charts & plates aren't available locally because the FAA has jerked the paper out of a lot of smaller airports.

It sucks and is a real safety issue.
Click to expand...

Exactly. That's why I gave up and went digital.

Given the amount of different places you fly, Tim, you might want to consider a digital unit and/or the AirChart Systems setup. I like their IFR and VFR atlases, but find the paper to be too cumbersome for approach plates.

The IFR atlas is nice for in-flight use once you get used to it. I don't do any flight planning using paper charts, though. Skyvector and Runwayfinder are the way to go for that...
 
I've gone all digital except for lo-enroutes (I have digital but carry the Jepp charts). I have Jepp plates on my MFD plus I carry a Samsung Q1 with Flightdeck for backup. I went with Jepp because that's the only option for my MFD and the paper lo-enroutes plus Flightdeck are "free" once you pay for the MFD subscription.

For in-flight ease of use I still prefer paper approach charts for the reasons already given by others but the whole country's worth is about 1.5 CuFt and 20 lbs which is more than I have room for in the plane. I flew with Aircharts for several years, mostly as a cost saving matter but it also solved the issue of getting updates on the road, something that just doesn't work well with the old concept of getting paper updates in the mail. But I was never comfortable with their updater system, I found it tedious to use and on more than one occasion managed to miss a (fortunately immaterial) change. I also didn't appreciate the fact that the update list grew to be several pages of changes by the end of the yearly cycle.

But with the setup I have, I find it a lot more difficult to brief an approach for several reasons. One is that neither display (the MFD or the Q1) can present the full plate well. The MFD simply cannot and splits most plates into four separate pages, the briefing strip at the top, the plan view, the profile view, and the mins section. I suppose I will eventually become accustomed to cycling through those pages in an orderly fashion when briefing but I'm struggling with my dependence on the ability to compare the information in each section like I'm able to do with paper. I'm thinking of spending some time sitting in the airplane on the ground practicing approach briefings of several unfamiliar airports to get more comfortable with this. I'm currently at the point where I can manage this as long as the autopilot is flying but things get messy if I'm hand flying.

I also haven't made peace with Flightdeck either. Just yesterday I wasted about 5 minutes on the ground setting up the Q1 before departure for a short IMC trip (to get the autopilot fixed!). For some reason I couldn't get it to accept the plan, it kept reverting to the last plan I had entered from Tennessee to home. And AFaIK there's no simple way to just select an airport and/or approach, it seems that you have to enter at least a minimal flight plan first. I also managed to get the display into a mode where it only shows the plan view and nothing else. I've had that happen before and eventually discovered that a single tap on the chart toggles between that and the full chart. Apparently I had accidentally touched the screen after I had it set to show the full chart. I guess I need to spend some more time learning that software too.

i've also got some gripes with Flightdeck's limitations. For some reason they designed it so that you can't use the full width of the display in portrait mode, there's always about 10% of that dimension wasted with buttons etc. Given the Q1's high display aspect ratio I'd sure like to move that stuff to the top or bottom of the display to allow the whole chart to fit at 10% higher zoom. Then there's the issue of chart orientation. The default is landscape mode which is completely wrong for the aspect ratio of the charts. And while there is a button to rotate the chart 90 degrees, I have to do that three times to get the optimal orientation since you can only rotate in one direction and it's the wrong direction. To make matters worse, I have to rotate every chart I view separately.

So, EFBs are nice as far as updating and currency goes but they can be a lot more difficult to use IME.
 
I want to go paperless, because I hate paper, plus sometimes, I have last minute trips where I don't have the time to wait for the paper to arrive. Plus, I've got a big open area in my panel (see here) where I could easily install a bracket to hold a small tablet PC. I don't need to worry about the GPS being super accurate, since I've got the 430.
 
Ed, any of the above listed options would fit well in that hole. That would be the best place for it. I think the hardest part with these things is figuring out where to put them.

Go for it.
 
I do need to measure that and see how much space is there. Knowing my luck it will be just a bit too big.
 
If you can afford it, and you're not like a million years old (that is to say, you can program a remote or play a video game without using the word "confounded!"), you should go paperless.

Paper is the technology of the 1900s.
 
SkyHog said:
If you can afford it, and you're not like a million years old (that is to say, you can program a remote or play a video game without using the word "confounded!"), you should go paperless.

Paper is the technology of the 1900s.
Click to expand...

Sorta.

I was an early adopter of lots of gadgets and tech.

But once too many times some key system failed and the results were usually catastrophic.

So notes and clearances get committed to paper -- no power, little cost, little fuss, and the possibility of failure is near zero (unless I let the pad blow out the window).

I'm not a Luddite, and take full advantage of GPS and XM, but I also think sometimes we pilots get gadget fever.

Sorta like cow bell -- just gotta have more...
 
dougwells said:
I also have the Seattle Avionics SkyPad. I checked out all the major players at Oshkosh '09 (FlightPrep, AnywhereMap, Garmin, Bendix/King and Seattle Avionics). By far, Seattle Avionics was my choice. Since then, I have used the SkyPad for ~100 hours including approaches down to fairly low minimums. I'm even more of a fan now than I was when I first purchased it. Here is a short pirep....

SkyPad
+ Great having one unit for all your flying prepwork. I do my flight planning (mostly IFR) and weather briefings with it. The weather briefings are really quite good as the Skypad downloads just about every chart I could want.

+ W&B. Once the flight planning is done I do the weight and balance on the Skypad module. Nice seeing where I am in the envelope at taxi, takeoff and landing scenarios.

+ In the Air. The unit just works. No bugs or screenlockups. Turn on the GPS, turn on SkyPad, open glassview and fly. Only issue I had was one flight the SkyPad did not pickup the GPS signal right away. Issue was solved the next day with a technical call to SA (did not set my default connection correctly).

+ Ability to print "TripPacks" of my planned trip. Nice having hard copy of everything. I only print the hardcopy out now when it makes sense.

Negatives
- The Skypad (and flightprep) convertible computer is more than I need. I am happy to have a dedicated unit for flying if it meant a thinner/lighter unit. Less of an issue now that I use a leg strap instead of a yoke mount.

- Sunlight readable. The SkyPad is 300nit. Garmin 696 and Bendix/King AV8OR is ~1,000 nits. The SkyPad works fine in my Piper but there are times I have to focus a bit to read it when it is in direct sunlight.

Hope this helps a tad. I have no affiliation with Seattle Avionics other than thinking highly of their team and enjoying their SkyPad. They are good folks and the SkyPad is a heck of great unit.

Doug Wells
Salt Lake City
U42
Click to expand...

Thanks for that review, Doug. I just watched their video (http://www.seattleavionics.com/Videos/SkyPad.wmv) and that's pretty impressive... especially for the price.
 
Well if I could get something 8 x 6 I would be good. That is going to be just a bit too big and overhang the stormscope and number two CDI.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top