Should I invest in another plane?

D

docmirror

Touchdown! Greaser!
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Well, it's been a hectic 6 months aviation-wise for me. I sold my plane back in Apr, and changed some of my mission parameters. My kids are safe in college, and I won't be doing as much flying as I used to a few years back. Still, it would be nice to go out and bore holes, and take a few trips from time to time.

I just went on a wild goose chase on a plane this week, and since that fell through, I'm debating if I want to mess with ownership again. Like most pilots, I want a plane that can do it all; run on branch water, and fix itself and I want to pay nothing for it. However, I'm a realist and don't mind spending a few bucks on the game.

Budget is a hard $40k(my choice), mission is everything from light acro to 1000 mile trips with 670NM distances pretty common between house, and vacation spot. Two people, one dog, minimal bags. Priority list is safety, economy, speed, fun.
 
That plane doesn't exist at that price point anymore. You used to be able to get the Focke Wolfe/Piaggio 149 for that, but the prices went up on them considerably. You can't buy a decent 33C anywhere close to that. Maybe a Mustang II, but your dog and bags have to be small and I haven't seen many around at that price point. Maybe a 150/2 Aerobat, again though, weight becomes a factor. I don't know how much room an RV4 can get you for the dog.... The dog is what throws the wrench into this really.
 
docmirror said:
Well, it's been a hectic 6 months aviation-wise for me. I sold my plane back in Apr, and changed some of my mission parameters. My kids are safe in college, and I won't be doing as much flying as I used to a few years back. Still, it would be nice to go out and bore holes, and take a few trips from time to time.

I just went on a wild goose chase on a plane this week, and since that fell through, I'm debating if I want to mess with ownership again. Like most pilots, I want a plane that can do it all; run on branch water, and fix itself and I want to pay nothing for it. However, I'm a realist and don't mind spending a few bucks on the game.

Budget is a hard $40k(my choice), mission is everything from light acro to 1000 mile trips with 670NM distances pretty common between house, and vacation spot. Two people, one dog, minimal bags. Priority list is safety, economy, speed, fun.
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Act fast, this will not stay on the market long at this price.

http://www.barnstormers.com/classified_806305_COZY+III.html
 
You might be able to find a Super Viking for that money. BTW "invest in airplane" is an oxymoron.
 
kgruber said:
You might be able to find a Super Viking for that money. BTW "invest in airplane" is an oxymoron.
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^^^^^ This.

Super Viking would fit you budget as far as pricepoint, but they are gas guzzlers for their speed. And you have to keep your dogs claws away from the fuselage.

You should spend a few extra bucks and get a Vans RV-7.
 
Interesting, I started with a Vari-eze long ago. Nice planes, but I know nothing about the Cozy. I am a bit concerned about the build quality of a composite plane to buy. It's a bit easier to inspect metal build quality.
 
John Baker said:
If you think buying an airplane is an investment, perhaps you should hold off for a bit.

-John
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I made money on the last two buy-sell deals, but of course, I did plenty of continuing mx while in my possession.

Investments can gain, and lose. To "invest" in something is not always for monetary gain, it can also be for utility gain, as with most planes. Yes, it is an asset that is tracked on my taxes, so goes under the investment category.
 
docmirror said:
I made money on the last two buy-sell deals, but of course, I did plenty of continuing mx while in my possession.

Investments can gain, and lose. To "invest" in something is not always for monetary gain, it can also be for utility gain, as with most planes. Yes, it is an asset that is tracked on my taxes, so goes under the investment category.
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Or sanity.
 
AcroGimp said:
Wittman W-10 for the win,

'Gimp
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Good choice. Lands a little hot, but I can get used to it. Also thinking Hiperbipe. I saw a really sweet one for sale in July, but I wasn't in the market then.
 
Early Piper Arrow or Arrow IIs (post '72 for long cabin but you don't need that) or Mooney C or E. I think they're cheap enough to keep mx wise that it won't seem like overkill for the 100NM putz-arounds and yet retain decent enough cruise speed under 10GPH to not cure you from owning an airplane, when undertaking the 600NM+ trips. I don't know how a Bo compares Mx wise to my airplane or a vintage mooney, and I'm assuming a 260HP or higher Bo is a true 160KTAS airplane, but it can't be that much more in mx can't it?

I own an Arrow II and paid not much more than your price point for it. I had a Warrior II before and honestly the mx cost differential is rounding errors. Sure, if I had to buy a new CS prop or replace a jug every year these costs would be higher, but in reality the true differential is found when assuming I would have to do the same on the Warrior. At that point you realize the true differential is rounding errors.

The real question for me would be what kind of utilization rate floor would cure me from wanting to spend ANY capital cost on this recreational pursuit. If I don't have a justification to travel to destinations farther away than 200NM at least 12 times a year, I wouldn't own anything. YMMV of course.
 
hindsight2020 said:
Early Piper Arrow or Arrow IIs (post '72 for long cabin but you don't need that) or Mooney C or E. I think they're cheap enough to keep mx wise that it won't seem like overkill for the 100NM putz-arounds and yet retain decent enough cruise speed under 10GPH to not cure you from owning an airplane, when undertaking the 600NM+ trips. I don't know how a Bo compares Mx wise to my airplane or a vintage mooney, and I'm assuming a 260HP or higher Bo is a true 160KTAS airplane, but it can't be that much more in mx can't it?

I own an Arrow II and paid not much more than your price point for it. I had a Warrior II before and honestly the mx cost differential is rounding errors. Sure, if I had to buy a new CS prop or replace a jug every year these costs would be higher, but in reality the true differential is found when assuming I would have to do the same on the Warrior. At that point you realize the true differential is rounding errors.

The real question for me would be what kind of utilization rate floor would cure me from wanting to spend ANY capital cost on this recreational pursuit. If I don't have a justification to travel to destinations farther away than 200NM at least 12 times a year, I wouldn't own anything. YMMV of course.
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Which one of those are good for light aerobatics?
 
Henning said:
Which one of those are good for light aerobatics?
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Crap, no reading comprehension. Disregard my last. RVs can't be found for that kind of money. I personally don't understand why, but that's the market reality for RVs.
 
hindsight2020 said:
Crap, no reading comprehension. Disregard my last. RVs can't be found for that kind of money. I personally don't understand why, but that's the market reality for RVs.
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That's why I wanted to know how big the dog is. If it's a German Shepard/Lab size or bigger, you're not going to fit 2 people, baggage, and the dog into any RV that you can buy for $40k.
 
When you find a plane that will fit your mission for that price ,let us all know. I don't think airplanes are investments at this time. Hope you pove me wrong good luck.
 
frfly172 said:
When you find a plane that will fit your mission for that price ,let us all know.
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did you see link above? Light acro, fair economy(runs on mogas if I want), good safety record except a few ground loops(rarely dangerous), and moderate speed for a biplane. The seller says 137MPH cruise @ 8.7GPH all day long. Not as good as the Wittman, but it'll do.
 
Sac Arrow said:
If a 707 can be barrel rolled, so can an Arrow.
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Oh indeed, I could roll my Arrow without problem, but it's not for the uninitiated and it certainly is a very poor aerobatic performer in that regard. For the sake of the regulation-compliance lovin' peanut gallery, I'll also add that it's not certified for that kind of flying and as such should not be attempted. There have indeed been instances of inflight failure due to people attempting amateur aerobatics in Arrows or other standard/utility category airplanes not approved for said maneuvers.

You really want airplanes with a lot more roll rate/pitch rate capabilities when it comes to even the lightest acro work. RVs are great dual-mission aircraft in that regard, alas way above the OPs price point in general.
 
Why are the planes I want to visit always on the other end of the country? It's just not fair... wwwwwwaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhh
 
docmirror said:
Interesting, I started with a Vari-eze long ago. Nice planes, but I know nothing about the Cozy. I am a bit concerned about the build quality of a composite plane to buy. It's a bit easier to inspect metal build quality.
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True, but if a composite hasn't shown its defects in 200+ hours it won't.
 
If you want another plane, buy one. Just don't call it an investment.
 
Clip4 said:
If you want another plane, buy one. Just don't call it an investment.
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Did you miss the part earlier where I sold my prev planes for more than I bought them for?

I got to fly them, gained the utility and fun then made money. Also, as I said, an investment represents an asset. Sometimes it's even depreciable. Investments lose money(see fedguv) sometimes.
 
Budget is a hard $40k(my choice), mission is everything from light acro to 1000 mile trips with 670NM distances pretty common between house, and vacation spot. Two people, one dog, minimal bags. Priority list is safety, economy, speed, fun.[/QUOTE]

Thought someone would have mentioned a Comanche 180 by now.
Burns 8-10GPH at 140knots and several for sale under $40,000.
 
Beech made an acrobatic Sundowner. You would have to do a search for one, the Beech Aero Club would be a good place to start. The couple I've seen over the years were all within your budget. You won't get there fast but you'll get there in comfort and will fulfill all if your requirements, including the dog.


Edit: I'm thinking I recalled incorrectly, it may be the Sierra they made in an acrobatic version.
 
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AdamZ said:
Beech made an acrobatic Sundowner. You would have to do a search for one, the Beech Aero Club would be a good place to start. The couple I've seen over the years were all within your budget. You won't get there fast but you'll get there in comfort and will fulfill all if your requirements, including the dog.
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Lets just bump the budget up a little bit,

http://www.barnstormers.com/ad_detail.php?ID=537831
 
I'm a real fan of the acro Sundowner if I was going to do gentleman acro most of the time, and bore holes the rest. But, the opposite is true. Much of my flying will be with dog, straight and level with the occasional loop, roll, spin. The Sundowner is comfy, safe and slow as all get out. I think on my 600 mile xc I'd go stir crazy pushing the throttle in all the time. But, it's on the list.
 
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