Should I fill out an ASRS?

ebykowsky

ebykowsky

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if I took off inside the KPIT Mode C Veil headed northbound without turning my xponder on? I was within the veil for 5nm max and realized when I contacted another approach control facility for flight following; on initial contact, they couldn't find me, which is when I looked at my transponder... it was on standby. This was a week ago; I realize filling it out can't hurt, but is it even worth it? How big of a deal is busting a Class B veil? By the way, I was never even under the overlying Class B.
 
No. You're fine. PIT probably didn't even see you. Even if they did see your primary, they don't know that you didn't have it on. Did you tell the other controller you forgot to turn it on?
 
Most folks seem to think that if there is any doubt of anything that you should fill out one of those forms. I don't know if your timing is ok on that? I think you have to fill it out pretty soon after the incident.
 
The filing limit for receiving waiver of sanction is 10 days after the event. But that doesn't mean others can't learn from what happened, so even if it's more than 10 days or there's no PD filed by ATC, go ahead and file the ASRS -- can't hurt, can only help.
 
Easy solution to prevent it from happening again is to follow the current AIM guidance on xpdr use:

the use of your transponder while taxiing is recommended in paragraph 4-1-20. It says, in part,
Civil and military transponders should be turned to the “on" or normal altitude reporting position prior to moving on the airport surface to ensure the aircraft is visible to ATC surveillance systems.
​
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http://www.faasafety.gov/spans/noticeView.aspx?nid=4145
 
Honestly, I do use the AIM almost always--xpndr is on from beginning to end, and I rarely turn it off at the end of the flight. I don't see any point in turning it to standby. This time I just forgot altogether.
And I never told the controller it was off, that was YNG approach anyway. When he said negative contact, I just turned it on and said, "how's that?"
 
ebykowsky said:
Honestly, I do use the AIM almost always--xpndr is on from beginning to end, and I rarely turn it off at the end of the flight. I don't see any point in turning it to standby. This time I just forgot altogether.
And I never told the controller it was off, that was YNG approach anyway. When he said negative contact, I just turned it on and said, "how's that?"
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So as far as the other controller is concerned you simply reset it. But, since you already admitted to it, probably should just submit to be safe. Don't think you'll hear anything from it though.
 
ebykowsky said:
Honestly, I do use the AIM almost always--xpndr is on from beginning to end, and I rarely turn it off at the end of the flight. I don't see any point in turning it to standby. This time I just forgot altogether.
And I never told the controller it was off, that was YNG approach anyway. When he said negative contact, I just turned it on and said, "how's that?"
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It happens.

Personally, I wouldn't worry about it, but there is no harm in doing an ASRS in this case.
 
You're fine, file if you want, does not hurt.
You know you can eFile online?

Departing from Class D, under Class B floor, tower always checks for a transponder return by the time you reach TPA. A simple "recycle", STBY, ON, ALT gets it working.

Years ago we did not squawk wile on the ground. Sitting at the hold line, TCAS on landing aircraft would alert on the aircraft at the hold line. But many airports now have surface detection equipment to monitor taxiways and hold shorts so the transponder needs to be on while on the ground.

Departing from a non Class D airfield, it's "Lights, Camera, Action" when crossing the hold line. Strobes, xpndr, throttle.
 
Alright, might as well let NASA know. How many of these have you guys filled out? Seems like if I do it for what I consider little things like this I could be writing one every other flight.
 
I've had no contact recycle requests so often that I suspect ATC can't possibly know the difference between a malfunctioning transponder and one that is switched off. I've also been told to continue primary only.
 
ebykowsky said:
Alright, might as well let NASA know. How many of these have you guys filled out? Seems like if I do it for what I consider little things like this I could be writing one every other flight.
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I've only submitted an ASRS once. It was for an altitude bust a few years ago. I basically confused the clearance to join the localizer with an approach clearance. I descended IAW the approach plate when the controller expected me to maintain the previous altitude. Nothing ever came of it.
 
Also, what's the worst that would happen if the FAA did take action?
 
ebykowsky said:
Alright, might as well let NASA know. How many of these have you guys filled out? Seems like if I do it for what I consider little things like this I could be writing one every other flight.
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No. Never made a mistake. :) Generally mistakes that require ASRS are airspace or aircraft loss of seperation stuff. If you screw up with ATC but they don't say "possible pilot deviation, advise you call XYZ approach after landing" youre probably good. One time I turned off on the wrong taxiway in front of another runway. Tower never said to call him. I called tower just to make sure we're cool. He said "no problem, everyone turns off there by accident." For ATC matters, my advice is to always call them if unsure.

If you violate a rule by accident and it's possible that someone might have witnessed it, then fill it out. Not sure how effective AOPA's legal plan is but I carry that as well.
 
Two weeks ago I took off VFR with the transponder still on a previously assigned IFR squawk code flying under the ATL class B. I discovered it about 10 minutes or less into the 20 minute flight, I reset to 1200 and filed an ASRS the next day. It might be overkill, but it only takes a couple minutes and it'll help remind me to check my transponder codes in the future.;)
 
Velocity173 said:
No. Never made a mistake. :) Generally mistakes that require ASRS are airspace or aircraft loss of seperation stuff. If you screw up with ATC but they don't say "possible pilot deviation, advise you call XYZ approach after landing" youre probably good. One time I turned off on the wrong taxiway in front of another runway. Tower never said to call him. I called tower just to make sure we're cool. He said "no problem, everyone turns off there by accident." For ATC matters, my advice is to always call them if unsure.

If you violate a rule by accident and it's possible that someone might have witnessed it, then fill it out. Not sure how effective AOPA's legal plan is but I carry that as well.
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I never talked to Pittsburgh approach, so I wouldn't have known. Is the veil kind of an "airspace"?
 
N747JB said:
Two weeks ago I took off VFR with the transponder still on a previously assigned IFR squawk code flying under the ATL class B. I discovered it about 10 minutes or less into the 20 minute flight, I reset to 1200 and filed an ASRS the next day. It might be overkill, but it only takes a couple minutes and it'll help remind me to check my transponder codes in the future.;)
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Crap. Now I'm second guessing what code I had in my xpndr last night. :eek: It was on for the whole flight though--checked that twice! (Different flight)
 
ebykowsky said:
Crap. Now I'm second guessing what code I had in my xpndr last night. :eek: It was on for the whole flight though--checked that twice! (Different flight)
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That's what we do here, make you second guess your whole life!:yes:
 
ebykowsky said:
I never talked to Pittsburgh approach, so I wouldn't have known. Is the veil kind of an "airspace"?
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No, but you were still in violation of 91.215. I'm just saying that airspace and aircraft separation are ones that can result in FAA action. In the old days a controller could overlook some of these types of pilot deviations. Now with the computer "snitch" it gets automatically reported. Those cases you definitely want to fill out. Your case, no biggie. I'd be willing to bet even if the PIT controller was reading this thread he could care less about your mistake. Unless he got a bonus for reporting FAR violations...then you'd be screwed. :)
 
Transponders are flaky, sometimes you have to jiggle the knobs a little to get them to work.
 
Meh--ASRS submitted. I'm 99% sure nothing would have come of it, but whatever. I suppose it's good practice if I ever really need to use it.
 
It's a pretty minor thing, it isn't the first time people have forgot to turn on a transponder, and it won't be the last the you do it.

"Arrow 123SA, ensure your transponder is on."

"Recycling transponder, 3SA....."
 
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