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Discussion in 'Flight Following' started by Anymouse, Apr 16, 2018 at 10:27 AM.
Asking for a friend.
If you buy a high wing airplane, buy one that can be converted to a tw later on.
Also, a nose wheel is cool, buts it’s just a nose wheel. Would you buy a tire for it, or just keep it around bare? If you buy a tailwheel airplane you could at least go flying.
People literally have to pay me to fly a trike
that depends on if you are a Ford guy or Chevy
It doesn't matter. Really - just have him figure out what his 90% mission is, and buy whatever he likes that can that job done. If he owns it, gets instruction, and is flying it all the time, he'll get the skills built up, no matter which end the little wheel is on. . .
I think we are being trolled.
Many have forgotten there was a real good reason the industry went nose wheel.
Tailoring to the lowest common denominator?
Same reason icon tried to make their cockpit look more like a car.
Think you missed the point, students were wrecking too many aircraft. so the industry followed the military and went nose wheel, accident rates dropped drastically.
Yup. Lowest common denominator of inadequate pilot skill.
Explain why you need those skills, in todays aviation atmosphere ?
And don't tell me to fly bush.
Even in the Alaskan bush it is rare to see a tail wheel plane used for business. Just about all the C-185s I see are on floats or amphibs.
Most folks fly a tail wheel plane for the same reason I like my 1970 chevy pickup. Just because I know how to use a clutch. (and even that is changing soon)
People with convertibles don’t drive them with the top down because they need more VitD. They do it because they like it.
Airbus drivers don’t need to have piloting or landing skills “in todays <sic> aviation atmosphere” with autopilot, nomal law and auto land by your comparison.
Why does anyone need to be a pilot? The reason that taildraggers became scarce is the same reason that cars have auto parking features and stop for you in traffic: people are lazy and don’t work hard to get Good at anything any more. Let the tech do it for you. Can’t push rudder pedals to stay straight? Let’s put the steering wheel up front and shift the C.G. in front of the mains to keep those lazy pilots from having to do any real work. Lowest common denominator.
Same thought process that went into eliminating real slow flight and full stalls in the ACS.
I'd buy the aircraft that suits my mission. The location of the third wheel is secondary.
It’s a personal thing.
I only fly nosewheels if someone is paying me.
Yes. You should buy one of them.
You could always buy a Sportsman 2 + 2 and convert it back and forth. From their website: "The Sportsman can be built as a tricycle, taildragger or floatplane. Get all three and change between configurations take only a few hours."
Why not get a nosewheel plane and then retrofit a tailwheel too. Bam! problem solved - no more arguments on which is best. Someone around here must have a picture of one
Doesn't the Challenger II qualify? Sure looks like it has a tailwheel.
Some friend. Your friend should know.
An AOPA webinar presented some views on this topic.
I think you just made my point.
Have your friend build a Kolb Firestar II SS. It has both.
And there are still very good reasons why certain airplanes are still built only as tailwheel.
Only because people will buy them for the status symbol.
I think every one knows I love a Cessna 170, but the 172 will do the job just as well, if not better.
The problem with aviation discussions is that folks tend to view issues through their own narrow lens. There are way more simple homebuilt aircraft designs that are tailwheel rather than trike for ruggedness, simplicity, and weight savings. Brand new half mil aerobatic airplanes are built as tailwheels because it's lighter and cleaner, provides clearance for big props, and pounds matter here...and of course because nosegear is ugly as crap.
Or the better ground handling and backcountry ability and cleaner profile in the air.
Your original point was in Post #6, where you implied that the industry changed for a reason. James, in a rare moment of lucidity, commented that tricycle geared airplanes became predominant due to being easier to fly because tailwheel airplanes are harder to operate during ground ops than their flatter-stanced cousins sporting the steering gear out front. He referred to many pilots' inabilities to operate tw aircraft in a manner which did not incur damage as "the lowest common denominator." You disagreed in Post #8, in which you wrote, "Think you missed the point, students were wrecking too many aircraft." (I wonder who missed the point. No, wait- I don't wonder. But I do digress...) Finally, in Episode 10, you inquire why anyone would need tailwheel skills in today's environment. So, James answered your first question. And the second, before you even asked it. (Hint: it's the same as the first answer!) No one NEEDS tw skills, unless they're going to fly a tw airplane. And Tom, no one NEEDS to learn how to drive a car because we have self-driving cars now. Right? No one indicated that anyone NEEDS to fly tw aircraft. Your whole premise of "why the industry went nosewheel" is analagous to "why cars have anti-lock brakes." Learn to drive. Or taxi. (See how that just tied it all together?)
If you can't realize the reason the industry went to tricycle, is safety, you've got a lot to learn.
I learned that way, and until recently I've stayed conventional current, but recently I have not flown enough to be proficient, So basically I've quit. rather than being the accident waiting to happen.
So if you don't believe you must be at the top of your game in tail wheel, you are the accident waiting to happen.
Jumpin’ cats, Tom! That’s the whole point James and I were making: tw requires MORE skill to operate SAFELY. Lower skill = lower success. I’m so glad we didn’t have kids. Ugh!
Lower skills required, means fewer accidents. all boils down to a safer activity
Do try to keep up. We’re talking about TAILWHEEL airplanes. Lower skill = lower successful operation rate. Please, continue your journey to be obtuse and pretend you don’t understand. It’s becoming your trademark.
Do try to stay on subject.
Tailwheel airplanes get groundlooped. Trikes flip over on soft surfaces, they will wheelbarrow off the runway if landed too fast, or they'll porpoise and bust the nosegear and firewall and a bunch of expensive internal structure. And the engine and prop. Really, the only reason for a nosewheel is because it's easier. Less skill, less practice, less knowledge of theory. I'd bet that the percentage of trikes lost to such mishaps is almost as big as the percentage of taildraggers busted by mistakes. Taildraggers, with their very demanding nature, will either make you or break you. No getting away with laziness.
Antiskid brakes were put on cars because they increased safety. Supposedly. Now we have a generation of drivers who just mash the brake pedal and let the ABS sort out the braking, and they get away with it most of the time until they get on some ice and no amount of ABS is going to save them. Computers and other automated gadgets have their limitations, but too many people don't understand that and they end up in the ditch. Witness that Asiana crash where they were relying on the autothrottles or something and landed short while they sat there and watched the airplane kill itself.
Build an idiot-proof machine and the world comes up with better idiots.
It’s easy to pick on Tom, but what he’s saying is pretty simple: there is a reason that the universe shifted to nose-wheels.
Tailwheel buys you a little extra useful load and they are better for unimproved/backcountry strips. But that’s really it.
There really is no NEED for tailwheel. We do it because we are enthusiasts.
I own 3 radial engine taildraggers. I love them. But there are things I just won’t do with them that I wouldn’t think twice about in nosewheels. I fly nosewheels for a living. Citations, Barons, 421, Cirrus...etc. I don’t sweat a 30 kt crosswind in any of those airplanes. I wouldn’t even attempt a 30 kt x-wind landing in any of my airplanes.
If you want to fly tailwheel because you love that kind of flying, I’m all about that.
But we need to stop the BS about tailwheel being some requirement to be a ‘real pilot’
Post #1 says, "Asking for a friend." Does that mean you're asking me to be friends? Oh, Tom, I don't know, it's all so sudden... how's a guy supposed to know, I mean, not for nothin', but I'm already full up on friends, and even though I could make room for one more, how do I know you'll keep up your end of the bargain the next time someone else comes along? I think my dog is calling me. I gotta go...
Tailwheel skills helped me make a lifelong dream come true.