Shot out of a cannon.

cwyckham

cwyckham

Line Up and Wait
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Aug 25, 2006
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535
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Victoria, BC
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cwyckham
I went down to the local glider club today to sign up. I haven't flown a glider in a year. I used to fly a Schweizer 2-33 (an antique) at van Sant in PA using aero tow launches. Here they have all new ships. I was flying in a PW6, and they're getting a duo discus x this month as well. They also have a couple of PW5s and Astirs. I couldn't believe the quality of their fleet. Oh yeah, and they have their own airport, a massive 3000' long field that you can land about 5 gliders on side by side.

They also have a winch...

Holy cow, that thing is amazing. 0-60 knots in about 2 seconds. I make that to be about 1.5g not including the pitch-up, and I'm estimating conservatively. By the time you're 50' off the ground you're pitched at about 30 to 45 degrees nose up. It felt like being shot out of a cannon. You're at 1000' AGL in about 10 seconds. And all for about $10 per launch. I suppose a catapult launch off a carrier must be more g's, but there's no 45 degree pitch up while you're at it.

I can't wait to learn how to actually fly a winch launch. I could barely take in what was going on the first couple of times.

Chris
 
yea winch launches and private airports are a couple things that help glider clubs make money. aerotows, not so much unless everything always goes right or the charges are pretty high. id love to get checked out to winch launch, would have to travel quite a ways to be able to do it, but it sure would be fun!
 
YEP!!
Did a bunch of winch tows back in Germany in the early 60's.
Thought that was how it was done ...... all the time..

What did I know, as a young ignorant kid, in the US Army???

Didn't find out about Aero tows, till about 9 years later when I experienced my first one in the Shawungunk Mountains of Upstate New York. ( N-82)

Now I'm into 150's, and 172's, but still, I remember the sounds of silence.
 
tonycondon said:
yea winch launches and private airports are a couple things that help glider clubs make money. aerotows, not so much unless everything always goes right or the charges are pretty high. id love to get checked out to winch launch, would have to travel quite a ways to be able to do it, but it sure would be fun!
Click to expand...

Do you have any idea why they aren't used in the US? They seem like such an obviously great idea. There've been a couple of articles in the SSA's magazine saying how great they are for a club because it costs so little to run and cuts way down on training costs so that membership tends to increase. Clubs seem to turn a profit with a winch and then are able to buy a great fleet and attract even more members.

Is it because US clubs don't tend to operate off their own airports? Around here, they do winch at public airports, but I don't know if that would 'fly' elsewhere. Surely there are airports in the US where you could run a winch operation though? On a good day they can get 30 gliders an hour launched here with just two cables, and most of them will be able to get away from the field from a single launch.

Chris
 
Im not sure the exact reason Chris. I suspect it has to do with the *relative* low cost of avgas in the states. Aerotowing makes a little more sense, plus you can get a LOT higher on aerotow. It seems like the clubs that do winch or ground launch seem to have this almost legend like "old guy" who is the expert on the craft. and when he dies or quits, so does the winch or ground launches. maybe this is just my observation and not the case. At least with aerotow if im not flying my glider im flying an airplane. with winch launches im sitting on top of a hot engine in the hot sun operating machinery. no thanks!
 
Pilawt said:
Here's a neat video of an auto tow launch, all the way through the pattern to landing, at Hood River, Oregon.

-- Pilawt
Click to expand...

Man - for the first time, ever, I wish I had quicktime installed at work so I could watch this.

I gotta find away around programs requiring administrator access to install around here.
 
Pilawt said:
Here's a neat video of an auto tow launch, all the way through the pattern to landing, at Hood River, Oregon.

-- Pilawt
Click to expand...

Cool video, thanks. I wish I had the hardware to do a good winch video. It was odd that they called it a winch in the video when it was an auto tow. That was a very gentle acceleration comparted to a winch. I've never personally met a car that can do 0-60 knots in two seconds alone, much less pulling a glider up at a 45 degree angle.

Chris
 
tonycondon said:
Im not sure the exact reason Chris. I suspect it has to do with the *relative* low cost of avgas in the states. Aerotowing makes a little more sense, plus you can get a LOT higher on aerotow. It seems like the clubs that do winch or ground launch seem to have this almost legend like "old guy" who is the expert on the craft. and when he dies or quits, so does the winch or ground launches. maybe this is just my observation and not the case. At least with aerotow if im not flying my glider im flying an airplane. with winch launches im sitting on top of a hot engine in the hot sun operating machinery. no thanks!
Click to expand...

Even with a winch, there will always be a call for aero tows because of the greater height in marginal conditions. If the club doubles in size because it's so much cheaper to train and half the time people choose aerotow, the tow pilots get the same business but the club can afford to buy nicer ships. I'm sure it would depend a lot on where you are, what field length you have, etc.

I think that one problem is that aerotows are only really prohibitive to students who have to do so many launches in training. Once you have your PPL, a launch or two will give you a full day of soaring and it ends up seeming cheap. Since the decision makers in the club often have their PPL, it may not be obvious to them that they might want to think about a major investment like a winch.

There were a few articles in soaring magazine last year that talked about how great winches were, so maybe things will change at some point. They're obviously not the answer at all locations and for all clubs, but I they have their place.

Chris
 
i think youve got it spot on chris. there is a reason that foreign clubs are NOT flying old blaniks and 2-22's and that most US clubs are. Its because the foreign clubs actually are making money!
 
tonycondon said:
i think youve got it spot on chris. there is a reason that foreign clubs are NOT flying old blaniks and 2-22's and that most US clubs are. Its because the foreign clubs actually are making money!
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Did I mention the Duo Discus X is coming this month? Oh yeah, I did.:D
 
showoff!

I like the airbrake/flap interconnect, very cool

At least I dont have to share my old wood and fabric glider! :)
 
tonycondon said:
showoff!

I like the airbrake/flap interconnect, very cool

At least I dont have to share my old wood and fabric glider! :)
Click to expand...

You get serious style points for ye ole jalopy glider. If you can soar in that guy, you can soar in anything.
 
yea there is no fun in having such a high glide ratio that you could make it across lake michigan from 6000 feet. i mean jeez, it takes all the excitement out of it! you always know you'll make it back to the airport, dont need a trailer or crew really. practically like having an engine :)
 
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