SFRA

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Edgefly

Pre-takeoff checklist
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Aug 6, 2012
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Edgefly
Anybody here flying in/out in a Non-electric equipped aircraft ?
 
The 30 mile Mode C veils encompass the SFRA so I'd doubt it. I know we coordinated a few for the JYO airshow at one point, but it isn't a regular thing.
 
I have a friend that flies into the SFRA with an original cub that is non-electric. He has a battery for a mode C transponder and a handheld radio and has had "no" problems. I guess that makes him kind of an electric plane except that he has no charging system, so his batteries have to be fully charged before filing an SFRA flight plan.
 
It can be done with special arrangement. We've arranged "flight of two" ops to escort guys without electrical systems in and out of IAD.
 
I don't think there is any room in the system to allow an aircraft to operate inside the SFRA without a transponder either installed or in another airplane next to it. As for operating within the Mode C veil outside the SFRA...
(3) Notwithstanding paragraph (b)(2) of this section, any aircraft which was not originally certificated with an engine-driven electrical system or which has not subsequently been certified with such a system installed, balloon or glider may conduct operations in the airspace within 30 nautical miles of an airport listed in appendix D, section 1 of this part [which includes the BWI/DCA/IAD] provided such operations are conducted--
(i) Outside any Class A, Class B, or Class C airspace area; and
(ii) Below the altitude of the ceiling of a Class B or Class C airspace area designated for an airport or 10,000 feet MSL, whichever is lower;
Click to expand...
 
I once saw a guy in a J3 at KVKX (in the FRZ). No idea how but he says he does so every few years.
 
Ron Levy said:
I don't think there is any room in the system to allow an aircraft to operate inside the SFRA without a transponder either installed or in another airplane next to it. As for operating within the Mode C veil outside the SFRA...
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Ron... All your posts are right on, accurate and sterile......

But..............

You have to admit... any bad guy wanting to sneak into the SFRA is NOT going to be using a transponder, will be in a composite airframe with minimal metal in it so not to paint on Radar.. So.. The whole security theatre is basically smoke and mirrors set up to give the sheeples a warm and fuzzy feeling....

No need to answer sir...:no::rolleyes:
 
When they're flying the surveillance asset, they will have no problem seeing anything that's powered by any conventional engine. As soon as the APG aerostat gets up, that will be pretty much a 24/7 event.
 
flyingron said:
When they're flying the surveillance asset, they will have no problem seeing anything that's powered by any conventional engine. As soon as the APG aerostat gets up, that will be pretty much a 24/7 event.
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Agreed....

Hard to hide from IR cameras.....:yes:
 
OK folks, settle down. first of all I'm not trying to "sneak in" to the SFRA. And in other controlled airspace, it is relatively common to have ATC simply request a few turns or such to properly identify an aircraft w/o a transponder then proceed with coverage using that ID. I will have solid radio communications and so the contact aspect is not a problem. It is done with aircraft using a transponder in formation or at least accompanying as indicated in some of the responses above. Just thought I would see if someone here has been doing it to see what their experience had been. As Ron pointed out the "ring" problem doesn't exist.

I'll be trying it out using the procedures specified and will post the result once I have done it.
 
It's not even IR. That engine is a fairly big hunk of reflective metal.
 
Edgefly said:
OK folks, settle down. first of all I'm not trying to "sneak in" to the SFRA. And in other controlled airspace, it is relatively common to have ATC simply request a few turns or such to properly identify an aircraft w/o a transponder then proceed with coverage using that ID. I will have solid radio communications and so the contact aspect is not a problem. It is done with aircraft using a transponder in formation or at least accompanying as indicated in some of the responses above. Just thought I would see if someone here has been doing it to see what their experience had been. As Ron pointed out the "ring" problem doesn't exist.

I'll be trying it out using the procedures specified and will post the result once I have done it.
Click to expand...
I gather you will be calling the phone number in the FDC NOTAM to discuss this plan. Please share what they tell you -- I'm sure many of us will be interested to hear what they say.
 
In our case we were operating in and out of IAD so we called the IAD tower. They have the ability to get on the horn with both Potomac TRACON and the security interests to let them know what we're doing. After that, it was just a matter of adding "flight of two" to the normal radio procedures.

Amusingly when departing with a avionics bus failed Queen Air, I had filed an IFR plan OUT to Buffalo NY (they were going to St. Catherines, Ontario and we figured if they couldn't get into Canada with just a handheld, we'd park it somewhere on the border and I'd shuttle his passengers up there.

Oddly, PCT gave me a "Radar Services Terminated Squawk VFR Have A Nice Day" somewhere around Hagerstown. It was a beautiful VFR day so I just let it go. Arriving at Buffalo I told the Queen Air I'd orbit over this uncontrolled field for a while to see if they made it or not and we'd land and regroup if they didn't. I flipped my radio from 122.75 over to Buffalo approach so I could listen in on the negotiations.

After about ten minutes I get "N5327K are you on frequency?"

Me: "Affirmative."
BUF: "We see you had an IFR plan filed to Buffalo, would you like to land here?"
Me: "No, I'm just trying to make sure that Queen Air made it across the border."
BUF: "He's well on his way to St. Catherines."
ME: "Great, I'm going back to Culpeper VA."
BUF: "Would you like flight following?"

IAD-CJR is I think 35 miles. My routing by way of BUF took three hours or so.
 
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