Seminole Inverted - Gear Up in Grass

Discussion in 'Flight Following' started by midwestpa24, May 16, 2019.

  1. midwestpa24

    midwestpa24 Cleared for Takeoff

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    Tantalum likes this.
  2. imwithtuxedo

    imwithtuxedo Pre-Flight

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    The article states the ground/tower told them to use the grass runway. I would have declined that offer/instruction and landed on the runway.
     
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  3. midwestpa24

    midwestpa24 Cleared for Takeoff

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    Probably didn't want to close the runway. Sorry, close the runway, I'm not chancing getting hurt by flipping.
     
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  4. Jamie Kirk

    Jamie Kirk Pre-takeoff checklist

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    If making a emergency landing because you don’t get 3 green on a soft field wouldn’t it be better to leave gear up to avoid flipping?

    Now if on concrete then yes keep whatever gear is down to soften impact but on soft field you have a very good chance of flipping.
     
  5. GMascelli

    GMascelli En-Route

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    It looks like they did a gear down but nose not locked. With the mains down and locked I would have chosen paved runway, despite what I was directed. Heck, just keep holding it off, it belongs to the insurance company once the gear wouldn’t lock down.
     
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  6. frfly172

    frfly172 Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    Looks like bad advise, the PIC probably should have opted on the paved runway, or landed in the grass gear up.
     
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  7. Juliet Hotel

    Juliet Hotel Cleared for Takeoff PoA Supporter

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    Telling them to land in the grass next to the runway really doesn't help anything as far as closing the runway goes. Once it flips, you're still going to have to close the runway while everything gets sorted out.
     
  8. Zeldman

    Zeldman Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Yep, uneven grass surface or smooth pavement, I'm going for the smooth pavement every time.
     
  9. NordicDave

    NordicDave Line Up and Wait

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    Some of the best emergency landing advice I had during training, "the insurance company now owns the aircraft, get it down with least chance of bodily harm".

    -David
     
  10. Grum.Man

    Grum.Man En-Route

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    I still contemplate how I would handle a gear problem. On one hand I know skidding on the asphalt is way safer than grass from the stand point of flipping over. On the other hand my fuel sumps are on the belly of the airplane pretty much at it's lowest point. Seems like my options are staying upright and possibly burning, or potentially flipping but likely not catching on fire.
     
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  11. Juliet Hotel

    Juliet Hotel Cleared for Takeoff PoA Supporter

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    I think your reasoning would make sense if the NTSB website had lots of accident reports on gear up landing on pavement that damaged the fuel sumps and led to a fire. But I don't think I've ever read such a report.

    But then again I don't think I've ever read any accident report on a Venture which the plane I assume you're talking about. That aside, what we do know is regardless of type, sliding the belly on pavement is likely to keep the plane upright and not guaranteed to cause a fire. What we also know is sliding the belly on grass could flip the plane if anything snagged. And depending on what snagged, a lack of fire is not guaranteed.

    I wouldn't want to have to exit a burning plane. But I really wouldn't want to have to exit a burning plane that was also upside down. I think I'd go for pavement.
     
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  12. iflyvfr

    iflyvfr Pattern Altitude

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    This reminds me of an incident several years ago at an airport I frequent. Pilot forgot to put the gear down on landing and just a couple feet off the runway, someone inside the FBO got on the radio and hollered GO AROUND GO AROUND!! Well the pilot dutifully complied with this order but not before grinding the prop down several inches and chewing on the asphalt. He horsed it back in the air, and disappeared. A witness told me he figured the guy augered in behind a treeline but eventually he reappeared and landed. He'd have been safer if he'd committed to the gear up.

    Personally I think both parties are to blame but of course the pilot gets to shoulder 100%. One dude has a good story, the other a good repair bill.
     
  13. timwinters

    timwinters Ejection Handle Pulled PoA Supporter

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    Centralia is an uncontrolled airfield, thus, it was possibly just some Honyock working in the FBO, or some pilot in the ground with a handheld, who told them that.

    One person on board was an instructor...and he (possibly) listens to an unknown idiot on the ground? If accurate, if I was the student, I think I'd be finding a a new instructor.
     
  14. woodchucker

    woodchucker Cleared for Takeoff

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    If that was the case, my guess is he was talking to someone he trusted. Wasn’t he in the air for something close to an hour burning off gas? The landing was planned in advance.
     
  15. Zeldman

    Zeldman Touchdown! Greaser!

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    I am thinking, speculating, that both the instructor and student were low time pilots. With that in mind this might have been the very first anomaly in an airplane besides a sudden use of an emesis bag or a window popping open for the both of them. So listening to a calm voice might have persuaded the use of the grass instead of the smooth pavement.
     
  16. IK04

    IK04 Cleared for Takeoff

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    ALWAYS use the pavement. Go somewhere else or land on a taxiway if blocking the runway is a concern...

    It's your emergency.
     
  17. N1120A

    N1120A Line Up and Wait

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    1) Is the grass runway there informal? Cause they don't have a grass runway published, just 2 asphalt ones.

    2) Not a chance in the world I'm landing that on grass.
     
  18. flyer770

    flyer770 Pre-takeoff checklist

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    I’m landing on a full runway if I can’t get the gear down since they’re wider than most taxiways. If I can I’ll be willing to go to an airport with two runways but I prefer stacking the deck in my favor as much as I can.
     
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  19. Bobanna

    Bobanna Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Hindsight is always 50/50
     
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  20. benyflyguy

    benyflyguy Pattern Altitude

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    I doubt thats a grass runway. The grass look at least a foot long and thick!!
    Not sure reasoning behind trying grass. How much damage can one do to a runway belly landing it??
     
  21. 3393RP

    3393RP Pattern Altitude

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    I noticed the "grass" almost came up to the waist of those milling around the plane.