San Francisco Bay Bridge - CLOSED

OtisAir

Line Up and Wait
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OtisAir
A piece of cable and other debris fell into traffic yesterday causing a minor car accident that backed up traffic for miles. The bridge is now closed indefinitely for evaluation/repair. Sounds like its going to be closed a while according to the news article. The article I read states that 275,000 vehicles cross the bridge each day! Wow!
 
Yeesh. Bad times for transportation. I-40 at the border of NC and TN had a rock slide this past weekend, which could keep that main route through the mountains closed for months. The published detour is about 180 miles extra via I-26 and I-81. The backroads to Asheville were jam packed as well.
 
Yeesh. Bad times for transportation. I-40 at the border of NC and TN had a rock slide this past weekend, which could keep that main route through the mountains closed for months. The published detour is about 180 miles extra via I-26 and I-81. The backroads to Asheville were jam packed as well.
Don't it make you wish you could just sprout wings and fly over it?

Oh, wait ... :D
 
Don't it make you wish you could just sprout wings and fly over it?

Oh, wait ... :D

Hehe, well we were out on the Dragon that weekend, and came back through the foothills parkway when we started to see traffic, and in our haste to get away from traffic ended up on the wrong side of the rock slide. No biggie for us really, but trucks that travel that route will probably hate the added time and distance.
 
How far along are they with the new one?
Pretty far. There's traffic going over the new bridge now for a small section right before TI...

The same bridge actually broke a few months ago. This new issue is related to the fix that they applied back then breaking again.
 
Right, that steel which fell:
5000# chunk of splicing supporting a recently found crack!
Without a decent hardhat, that mighta hurt!
 
Pretty far. There's traffic going over the new bridge now for a small section right before TI...

The same bridge actually broke a few months ago. This new issue is related to the fix that they applied back then breaking again.

Felix -- I think that new section is just temporary so that they can remove the old section which is required to put in the 'final' section.

Pretty much the whole elevated roadway of the new span is done. The big piece left is the tower and suspension part. That will take a few years.

Sam
 
Yeesh. Bad times for transportation. I-40 at the border of NC and TN had a rock slide this past weekend, which could keep that main route through the mountains closed for months. The published detour is about 180 miles extra via I-26 and I-81. The backroads to Asheville were jam packed as well.

And that bridge between NY and VT too.
 
Pretty far. There's traffic going over the new bridge now for a small section right before TI...

Ah, that explains why I thought the new bridge was open already. I guess I should pay more attention.

The same bridge actually broke a few months ago. This new issue is related to the fix that they applied back then breaking again.

The picture of the damage definitely looks like the old bridge. I guess the new bridge is looking a lot less like a boondoggle right now!
 
Yeesh. Bad times for transportation. I-40 at the border of NC and TN had a rock slide this past weekend, which could keep that main route through the mountains closed for months. The published detour is about 180 miles extra via I-26 and I-81. The backroads to Asheville were jam packed as well.

I saw that on the news. Incredible. 180 miles....wow! :yikes:
 
Yeesh. Bad times for transportation. I-40 at the border of NC and TN had a rock slide this past weekend, which could keep that main route through the mountains closed for months. The published detour is about 180 miles extra via I-26 and I-81. The backroads to Asheville were jam packed as well.
Lots of sections of roads were closed up here in wonderful windy Wyoming today and we actually did use GA to fly a leg which the passengers would have otherwise driven but couldn't.
 
Who wants to join me in an air strike and take out the Golden Gate Bridge? Through massive additional air strikes to 280 and 101 we can isolate that cesspool!

The Grumman Air Force will rule the skies!


:D
 
Who wants to join me in an air strike and take out the Golden Gate Bridge? Through massive additional air strikes to 280 and 101 we can isolate that cesspool!
How is that going to isolate Washington DC or Wall Street? Those are the real cesspools, right? :)

(I happen to really like San Francisco!)
 
Who wants to join me in an air strike and take out the Golden Gate Bridge? Through massive additional air strikes to 280 and 101 we can isolate that cesspool!

The Grumman Air Force will rule the skies!


:D

I forwarded your message to DHS. :nono:
 
Lots of sections of roads were closed up here in wonderful windy Wyoming today and we actually did use GA to fly a leg which the passengers would have otherwise driven but couldn't.

I'm not sure that Rock Springs to Pinedale counts as a useful trip...:rolleyes:
 
You planning on "flour bombing it?" Gonna take a lot of "bombs."

We certainly do that enough.

I actually like San Fran to visit. I lived there for about six months when Idid a project for my old company. I had a blast. Would I ever actually move there permantly? NO.

The traffic must be a NIGHTMARE even worse than before.
 
Hehe that was a really good guess. Actually it was Rock Springs to Riverton. A whole .5!

Ha! I just new that old twin cezzna was slow. I could do that trip in 0.7 in the Dakota!

What in the heck were those guys doing going to the Wind River Basin? Ok, ok, that wasn't a polite question. Say hi from me to Dean Dubois if he is/was on board. Last time I talked to Dean he was working that basin.
 
What in the heck were those guys doing going to the Wind River Basin?
Haha, this was actually a gal's trip. Eight women and two men on board including the crew. :)

Say hi from me to Dean Dubois if he is/was on board. Last time I talked to Dean he was working that basin.
He wasn't lucky enough to be the only male passenger with the seven women.
 
Saw the title and thought - POA didn't exist in October 1989. What's going on here? Deja vu, all over again.
 
The condition of our surface transportation infrastructure is abysmal and disgraceful.

My brother's ex is an engineer who works for a firm engaged in evaluating / repairing / building bridges in the NY / NJ / CT tri-state area, and she told me that some of these bridges are literally falling down a piece at a time due to long neglect of the most basic maintenance, such as painting.

She especially urged me to avoid one bridge in particular, the Tappan Zee bridge, which is a very long bridge that traverses the Hudson River, connecting Westchester and Rockland counties in New York. That one, she said, is in such bad shape that she believes it's in unacceptable danger of immanent failure. But others aren't far behind, she says.

What really annoys me about all of this is that the tolls we pay to cross the bridges around here are astronomical. But almost none of the toll revenue goes toward maintaining the bridges. The lion's share goes to support mass transit -- which around here is run by the New York State Metropolitan Transportation Authority (MTA), one of the most corrupt, inefficient, and wasteful agencies in the history of human government.

In the 60 years or so since the government took over the operation of mass transit in and around New York City, they've managed to transform the system from a once-profitable private enterprise to an epic boondoggle. Once upon a time, two private companies ran the New York City subway system -- at a profit. In fact, the system was so profitable that the City wanted to get into the game. They saw it as a source of revenue.

So the city established a third, government-owned company to compete with the two private operators, to hopefully put them out of business so the city could take over their operations. When that didn't work, the city denied the private companies a $.02 fare increase -- for something like 20 years -- until they forced them into bankruptcy (whereupon the City took over the system and raised the fare by $.05, rather than the $.02 that the private companies had requested).

More fare increases followed, and the system under government operation continued to grow more and more bloated. By the late 1960's, the system was essentially bankrupt, forcing the government to scramble for new funding sources (additional fare increases being politically unacceptable to the fed-up voters). Under city operation, the fare had already risen 500 percent since the private operators had been forced into bankruptcy. The quality of service also had declined, and the subways were so crime-ridden that riding them was considered an act of courage -- or folly.

NYC Mayor John Lindsay and NYS Governor Nelson Rockefeller believed that the best answer to mass transit's financial crisis was to take over the highly-autonomous Triborough Bridge and Tunnel Authority, which was run by Robert Moses. The prospect of getting rid of Moses made the takeover especially appealing, as both Lyndsey and Rockefeller detested him. The TBTA post was one of the dozen or so government offices Moses held -- simultaneously -- but arguably was the most important (and unarguably brought in the most revenue, most of which went into building new roads, bridges, and tunnels, and maintaining existing ones).

Robert Moses was no saint. He had his quirks and failings. By most accounts he was a bigot. He had little respect for the historical and social value of the communities he demolished. He had little understanding of the importance of ethnic and social subcultures. He also had no qualms about pushing his weight around and using his substantial power to force projects through to completion, despite often-overwhelming public opposition. Some of the tactics he used are believed to have bordered on blackmail.

All that being said, Robert Moses also was almost certainly the greatest builder in the history of public works. He had a well-earned reputation for doing the impossible. He almost always completed his projects on-time and under budget. He had a reputation for honesty and plain talk in his dealings with contractors, engineers, and planners. He was obsessed with details and had offices at all of his ongoing projects (a few of which have been preserved, and which I have visited) so he could make sure the work was being performed per specifications. Perhaps most notably, despite presiding over billions of dollars in projects (he built practically every park and major roadway in New York State), he's never been accused -- not even by his fiercest detractors -- of tapping the till or otherwise personally profiting from his service.

Needless to say, Rockefeller and Lindsay hated him.

To Rockefeller and Lindsay, getting rid of Moses was almost as much a reason to abolish TBTA's autonomy as was getting their hands on the agency's money. So in clear violation of the terms of the TBTA bonds (most of which happened to be held by the Chase Manhattan Bank, of which the governor's brother John happened to be the chairman, thus preventing a bondholder lawsuit), both the bankrupt NYC Transit Authority and the hugely profitable TBTA were absorbed into the State MTA, Robert Moses was ousted (he never received even the symbolic post he was promised on the MTA's board), and the TBTA's toll revenues were diverted from road construction projects to mass transit.

Nowadays, it costs as much as $10.50 to cross some of the bridges or tunnels in an automobile. Truck drivers pay much more. Almost all of the money goes to subsidize the mass transit system. Most of the projects to repair or replace roads, bridges, and tunnels have been stuck in the planning stages for decades. Invariably, the road projects that do get underway run way over budget and way behind schedule: It typically takes many times longer to resurface a road, for example, than it took to build it in the first place.

In the meantime, the bridges Robert Moses built are disintegrating, falling into the water piece by piece, due to decades of abject neglect.

-Rich
 
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In the 60 years or so since the government took over the operation of mass transit in and around New York City, they've managed to transform the system from a once-profitable private enterprise to an epic boondoggle.

Sadly, I'd bet that if they tried to convert it back to a private enterprise, it'd still be a boondoggle. Look at LockMart and the Indiana toll road for examples...

Nowadays, it costs as much as $10.50 to cross some of the bridges or tunnels in an automobile. Truck drivers pay much more.

Example: Verrazano Narrows bridge outbound is $64 in a truck. :hairraise:

In the meantime, the bridges Robert Moses built are disintegrating, falling into the water piece by piece, due to decades of abject neglect.

Thanks for the detailed story, Rich - Fascinating! But I'm guessing we're gonna see another collapse or three a la I-35 in Minneapolis before people (and politicians) start paying attention. :(
 
Yeesh. Bad times for transportation. I-40 at the border of NC and TN had a rock slide this past weekend, which could keep that main route through the mountains closed for months. The published detour is about 180 miles extra via I-26 and I-81. The backroads to Asheville were jam packed as well.

I just made drive Thursday night into Friday. Instead of taking 26 up to 81 I just hopped onto 25/70 into Tennessee.

Very pretty drive this time of year. :yes:
 
Nowadays, it costs as much as $10.50 to cross some of the bridges or tunnels in an automobile.
It's not quite as expensive in San Francisco. The Bay Bridge costs $4 for cars and the Golden Gate is $6. They only charge in one direction (inbound to the City). I've recently read they are thinking of raising the toll on the Golden Gate $1 though.

Update: The Bay Bridge is still closed. They are now thinking possibly Monday morning...
 
Rich, thanks for posting that detailed account. We were shocked at how much we spent in bridge tolls when in NYC. A couple hundred dollars we hadn't budgeted for, which influenced choices and opportunities later in the trip.
 
It's not quite as expensive in San Francisco. The Bay Bridge costs $4 for cars and the Golden Gate is $6. They only charge in one direction (inbound to the City). I've recently read they are thinking of raising the toll on the Golden Gate $1 though.

Update: The Bay Bridge is still closed. They are now thinking possibly Monday morning...

And the only reason the Golden Gate Bridge is this expensive is the "Holy Golden Empire", the buses and ferries it supports. It was sold to the people on the promise that the toll would be removed when the bridge was paid for. That happened years ago.
 
Here's what NYC drivers receive in return for our bridge and tunnel tolls. This picture was taken at about 11:30 p.m. on the 30th (about half an hour prior to this post). It's I-278 East by the Battery Tunnel / Brooklyn Queens Expressway split.

That's not an unusual amount of traffic for that stretch of road, by the way. I make this particular trip between two and eight times a month, and that traffic is pretty typical.

-Rich
 

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as reported by CNN:

The San Francisco-Oakland Bay Bridge, damaged by debris nearly a week ago, reopens to traffic.
 
Oh, gee, thanks.


:rolleyes:

That's kind of how I feel when people engage in San Francisco bashing. Even though I don't live there, it just seems gratuitous to me.
 
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