Samsung Pay - Game Changer

So, it's been nearly 5 months. Chip readers are still exceedingly rare (I have seen a total of 6 in the last 5 months), and magnetic swipe still rules the marketplace.

Because of Samsung pay, I haven even pulled my card out of my wallet in months, and probably no more than 4 times since October. I don't even carry a wallet anymore (keep all needed ids in my phone case.

Samsung Pay was very much a game changer. NFC still does not exist in many places, and when it does, Samsung Pay works flawlessly there too.

Game changer
 
Wal-Mart (at least the one in my little town) has chip readers. In fact, if you have a card with a chip it won't let you swipe, and you are required to insert it.
 
So, it's been nearly 5 months. Chip readers are still exceedingly rare (I have seen a total of 6 in the last 5 months), and magnetic swipe still rules the marketplace.

Because of Samsung pay, I haven even pulled my card out of my wallet in months, and probably no more than 4 times since October. I don't even carry a wallet anymore (keep all needed ids in my phone case.

Samsung Pay was very much a game changer. NFC still does not exist in many places, and when it does, Samsung Pay works flawlessly there too.

Game changer

The industry is running as fast as it can to roll out EMV. The big problem is that it's quite frankly pretty complicated technology and the certification requirements are an absolute bear.
 
I watched a video (sorry, lost it) where a guy was saying every top ten flashlight app is malware that sends info to India and China.

Don't know if it's true, just passing along what I saw.

He said if you get a flashlight app, make sure it's small in size, like under a hundred kilobytes. All the big flashlight apps are malware. Only a factory reset will clear one because they leave trojans behind if you just un-install.
 
So, it's been nearly 5 months. Chip readers are still exceedingly rare (I have seen a total of 6 in the last 5 months), and magnetic swipe still rules the marketplace.

Because of Samsung pay, I haven even pulled my card out of my wallet in months, and probably no more than 4 times since October. I don't even carry a wallet anymore (keep all needed ids in my phone case.

Samsung Pay was very much a game changer. NFC still does not exist in many places, and when it does, Samsung Pay works flawlessly there too.

Game changer

As far as I know, the one remaining store in Sparrow Fart whose checkouts are not chip-enabled will be have them working effective Monday.

Rich
 
I watched a video (sorry, lost it) where a guy was saying every top ten flashlight app is malware that sends info to India and China.

Don't know if it's true, just passing along what I saw.

He said if you get a flashlight app, make sure it's small in size, like under a hundred kilobytes. All the big flashlight apps are malware. Only a factory reset will clear one because they leave trojans behind if you just un-install.

I actually consider almost all free smartphone apps to be spyware until proven otherwise. Some are just legal spyware.

Rich
 
Meh. I'm kind of a cash guy myself when I can.

I wind up using a lot of credit because I travel for work, but for us I prefer cash. There is something about having the money in your hand that makes you think hard before you spend it.
 
Meh. I'm kind of a cash guy myself when I can.

I wind up using a lot of credit because I travel for work, but for us I prefer cash. There is something about having the money in your hand that makes you think hard before you spend it.

I know I've been here too long when I read a post like this and say to myself "I wrote an answer to that once already." Sure enough...
 
Is there an Apple Pay app for pre-iphone6 phones?
or another means to use an iphone4 to 'radio-pay'?
 
Another update, just for funsies - 10 months later, chip readers are still pretty much non-existent. Samsung Pay works pretty much everywhere, and now with the recent expansions in banks, my bank is supported, so I don't even carry my cards with me anymore. Samsung Pay is my wallet, and it is all I use.

For dip and swoop machines, it still will not work, but if you need to pump gas, finding a handicapped pump usually has a swipe machine instead, which works great. I don't even get "Ooh, that's cool, how does it work" from many merchants anymore, except the ones that say "We don't support iPhones." When I prove that its not an iPhone and it just works regardless of their backwards technology choices or disabled NFC reader.

I'm not sure I'll ever go back to using a card. Now Colorado just needs to launch a drivers license app, and I'll never need to carry any cards.
 
Does Samsung Pay work with the chip reader terminals? I have a Note 5 and may give it a try.

Also why do the chip terminals take so long to use? I was at target yesterday and it took maybe 15-30 seconds from when it told me to put the card until it was ok to remove. The swipe seemed faster. Maybe it was just a bad terminal or something.
 
Also why do the chip terminals take so long to use? I was at target yesterday and it took maybe 15-30 seconds from when it told me to put the card until it was ok to remove. The swipe seemed faster. Maybe it was just a bad terminal or something.
I've used chip readers in quite a few places recently and I agree that they are much slower. I couldn't tell you why, though.

However, in thinking further about this, the act of swiping doesn't take as much time but the approval process takes about the same time. The difference is that you aren't supposed to remove your chipped card until the approval process is over.
 
Last edited:
I go to Canada quite frequently, the chips vs the stripes, I'm not seeing a huge benefit ether way, if someone steals my card it's just as easy for them to buy expensive crap online, which is what the smart crooks are doing, why show your face with a stolen card when you can just have your loot delivered to a empty house?

With some of the providers like PayPal, where you get a email not even 60 seconds after the card is used, I'm just not concerned enough to care about the strip vs chip, someone steals my card makes one transaction, I make a few clicks, probably before the guy is even out of the store and my card is locked up, money put back in my account and alls well in my little world.

One aspect I DONT like about the chip is there really isn't a human signature or anything needed.

It's really not a better or worse system, and having to deal with that remote machine does cheapen the dining experience a little, especially when some of the remote machines are as user friendly as others.
 
I like the remote machines like they've had at restaurants in Canada for quite some time. It seems as if they almost always ask for your signature, though. Wish the US banks would go to chip and pin.
 
Does Samsung Pay work with the chip reader terminals? I have a Note 5 and may give it a try.

The few chip readers I have seen still have the swipe function too, so it should work.
Also why do the chip terminals take so long to use? I was at target yesterday and it took maybe 15-30 seconds from when it told me to put the card until it was ok to remove. The swipe seemed faster. Maybe it was just a bad terminal or something.

It's much slower. But the overall process is about the same, regardless of pay type, if you include the entire process from swipe to authorization.
 
Does Samsung Pay work with the chip reader terminals? I have a Note 5 and may give it a try.

Also why do the chip terminals take so long to use? I was at target yesterday and it took maybe 15-30 seconds from when it told me to put the card until it was ok to remove. The swipe seemed faster. Maybe it was just a bad terminal or something.

Magstripes are dumb. They just hold some data about the card. Chips are smart and can participate in meaningful discourse. All a magstripe terminals does is read the stripe because the stripe is dumb. EMV terminals, on the other hand, facilitate a lively dialogue between the chip and the merchant processor. Chips can do that because they're smart.

Not only are chips smart, but they're also almost impossible to clone because they craftily encrypt everything they say. That means the chances of your card numbers being stolen during an EMV transaction are almost zero. Having had old-fashioned magstripe card numbers stolen, I'll gladly take the short delay. The only thing I wish is that we had the option to force a PIN rather than a signature.

Rich
 
Last edited:
I go to Canada quite frequently, the chips vs the stripes, I'm not seeing a huge benefit ether way, if someone steals my card it's just as easy for them to buy expensive crap online, which is what the smart crooks are doing, why show your face with a stolen card when you can just have your loot delivered to a empty house?

With some of the providers like PayPal, where you get a email not even 60 seconds after the card is used, I'm just not concerned enough to care about the strip vs chip, someone steals my card makes one transaction, I make a few clicks, probably before the guy is even out of the store and my card is locked up, money put back in my account and alls well in my little world.

One aspect I DONT like about the chip is there really isn't a human signature or anything needed.

It's really not a better or worse system, and having to deal with that remote machine does cheapen the dining experience a little, especially when some of the remote machines are as user friendly as others.

PayPal is phenomenal about notification. I usually haven't even put the card back in my wallet before my phone starts beeping with the notification. Cap One is the same way, but only recently. They used to take several hours.

As for the signature, I suspect that whether or not to require one is an issuer policy based on the user's habits. Sometimes I'm asked, and sometimes not. There does seem to be a bit of smarts involved because I'm always asked for a signature when I'm far from home in a place outside my usual travels, but I'm almost never asked when I'm at a store that I frequent.

All my EMV cards have PINs assigned to them, but no terminal in the U.S. has ever asked me for a PIN nor offered me the opportunity to use one. My understanding is that there's no way to force the use of a PIN rather than a signature in the U.S. implementation of EMV. Using a PIN would really be my preference.

Rich
 
what security does a signature add? I have signed mine Santa Claus, or even made a fast horizontal stroke and no one cares.
 
what security does a signature add? I have signed mine Santa Claus, or even made a fast horizontal stroke and no one cares.


Exactly. I read a story where a guy went all over the country signing everything but his name and was never declined. He would make an X, or sign it jesus christ, and never once declined.

I hate it and don't like having to grab the pen thingy that everyone's had their hands on after picking boogers and god knows what all. I hate touching anything the public masses have had their hands on.

Yeah, I'm a bit germophobic but I never seem to get sick either.
 
In my veterinary practice I just had to buy two of these new chip reader terminals. $500 each. I wasn't really happy about it. The damn swipers still worked fine. I could have bought a lot of 100LL for those new terminals.
 
Sendem back, arkvet. I can give you the name of a place that is providing them free.
 
Free is good!
 
Another update, just for funsies - 10 months later, chip readers are still pretty much non-existent. Samsung Pay works pretty much everywhere, and now with the recent expansions in banks, my bank is supported, so I don't even carry my cards with me anymore. Samsung Pay is my wallet, and it is all I use.

For dip and swoop machines, it still will not work, but if you need to pump gas, finding a handicapped pump usually has a swipe machine instead, which works great. I don't even get "Ooh, that's cool, how does it work" from many merchants anymore, except the ones that say "We don't support iPhones." When I prove that its not an iPhone and it just works regardless of their backwards technology choices or disabled NFC reader.

I'm not sure I'll ever go back to using a card. Now Colorado just needs to launch a drivers license app, and I'll never need to carry any cards.
You may not believe me, but it is coming, and gaining traction.

The big issue right now is that all the brands and processors are big time back logged on EMV certifications. They just don't have enough certification analysts to handle all of the merchants and service providers that are requesting certifications... The hardware is pretty widely deployed right now with merchants but most of that hardware is disabled because it hasn't been certified. There are also lots of technical issues with each certification that really complicates things and makes them take a LONG time and take LOTS of engineering. Any change in the EMV transaction flow is another re-certification. The certifications are slowly getting a little more efficient.

Mag-stripe transactions will die. It's not a matter of if, just when, and that when isn't as far out as it may look.

Magstripes are dumb. They just hold some data about the card. Chips are smart and can participate in meaningful discourse. All a magstripe terminals does is read the stripe because the stripe is dumb. EMV terminals, on the other hand, facilitate a lively dialogue between the chip and the merchant processor. Chips can do that because they're smart.

Not only are chips smart, but they're also almost impossible to clone because they craftily encrypt everything they say. That means the chances of your card numbers being stolen during an EMV transaction are almost zero. Having had old-fashioned magstripe card numbers stolen, I'll gladly take the short delay. The only thing I wish is that we had the option to force a PIN rather than a signature.

Rich
Indeed. There is a hell of a lot of stuff that happens between the chip in the card, the terminal, and the processor. In fact, it's possibly to get a legally binding credit card authorization completely off-line, authorized by chip in the card, communicated to the terminal, submitted to the processor/issuer in a settlement batch later. An off-line authorization like that is just as valid as an online one.

I spend a LOT of time looking at the data flowing back and worth between EMV cards and terminals. Our test hardware is essentially a dongle that plugs into the terminal (its a plastic card with an EMV chip on it) that wires into a box then into a computer via USB. With that we can do everything a real card does and test tons of oddball scenarios (thousands of them) (there is a lot of crazy **** an EMV card can technically do). This hardware is an annual fee that would buy an airplane each year. Different test hardware for different processors. It gets expensive in a hurry just to play in the EMV card flow business.

If you're really bored and want to know everything about how EMV works...
https://www.emvco.com/specifications.aspx?id=223
Book 3 is probably the most interesting.

The only thing I wish is that we had the option to force a PIN rather than a signature.
RJM62 said:
All my EMV cards have PINs assigned to them, but no terminal in the U.S. has ever asked me for a PIN nor offered me the opportunity to use one. My understanding is that there's no way to force the use of a PIN rather than a signature in the U.S. implementation of EMV. Using a PIN would really be my preference.
The standard definitely supports it. However most of the solutions being built/deployed today (even if the hardware is capable) isn't being certified with PIN capability at all. The card brands currently are not requiring it in the United States. This means it'll be a LONG LONG time before you see cards that won't authorize without a PIN.

But hell, who knows, the standards for this stuff are changing on literally a daily basis. What would have been correct during a certification 6 months ago would not be correct today. Or even a month ago in many cases.
 
Last edited:
You may not believe me, but it is coming, and gaining traction.

Oh, I believe it's coming. And I admit I'm giving you a bit of **** because you actually believed that October last year actually meant anything from a merchant perspective.

I predict that chipped cards will be all the rage sometime in 2021 or so. I shop a lot, and i think i have seen 4 chip readers in the last 8 months.

Merchants will NOT replace their readers until the old ones break. That is fact. All the standards in the world will not change that.

And when they replace their machines? They'll likely have NFC, which means Samsung Pay will still work. So i still have a long term solution.
 
Most of the readers at most of the merchants I've visited in the past few months have been EMV-capable, including small mom and pop retailers. I would say that I've noticed the new terminals at nearly 100% of national chain retailers, and most small independent retailers. Ironically, more mom and pops seem to be EMV-enabled. Also, I've noticed that some retailers who are EMV-enabled will still accept swipe, and often employees don't know (and don't care about transaction security anyway) so when asked they'll just tell you to swipe. This does seem to be changing, though, but very slowly.

The bottom line is that the mag stripe process is terribly insecure compared with EMV, and even if it never goes away, I seek to avoid it whenever I can. I've had enough cards skimmed and data stolen from retailer hacks that I care not to adopt any technology which will perpetuate that risk.


JKG
 
I've seen and used a lot of chip readers so far. Not sure where Nick is shopping, but they're activated at both grocery stores I frequent and two big box stores and the computer warehouse place. Granted being in the sticks, we use Amazon more than anything, but even have them active at Lowes and Home Depot now. Also active at numerous lunch spots near the office when I go up there.

They're really not going to be ubiquitous until we start seeing fuel pumps with them, though. Haven't seen one of those yet, anywhere.

Even the country gas station just got his compatible reader, but that mostly was because he was due for a new POS system. He needed one that would print the pizza and calzone orders on a printer over in the kitchen area, so when he bought the new register, the reader is the new variety.
 
I have noticed that many stores around here have chip readers. The one in the local Walmart will not allow you to swipe if the card has a chip (the reader knows that somehow). I have not seen them on gas station pumps yet.
 
They're really not going to be ubiquitous until we start seeing fuel pumps with them, though. Haven't seen one of those yet, anywhere.

The lack of them at gas stations hasn't stopped the proliferation of them elsewhere, but I too have yet to see an EMV terminal at a gas station (at least on the pumps). Unfortunate, since gas stations seem to be common targets for mag-stripe skimmers.


JKG
 
The lack of them at gas stations hasn't stopped the proliferation of them elsewhere, but I too have yet to see an EMV terminal at a gas station (at least on the pumps). Unfortunate, since gas stations seem to be common targets for mag-stripe skimmers.

Gas stations were the source of at least seven fraud attempts against my cards. Five were from the same gas station in California.

Card company didn't seem to understand in the slightest that if someone was running each new card number they assigned me through the same gas station, that they had a much bigger problem, because that was an insider or infiltrator with access to the numbers issued to me, or access to run an awful lot of bad transactions without being locked out to get all five card numbers right over time.

It was Barclays and take that information FWIW.

I suspect they have VERY serious internal security problems on their controls of who can access card numbers as they're issued in their fraud re-issue system.

I mostly find the need to stick the card in and leave it there (often while fiddling with grocery bags or other activities while waiting) is a pain in the butt. With a swipe system I pull it out and swipe and right back in the wallet. I'm eventually going to leave a card hanging in one of these stupid readers. Read the thing and give it back to me already...

And yeah, I know why they don't. It's just a totally annoying UI. The phone things are only slightly better but at least on iPhone, waiting for the thing to come up when sleeping, and then flipping through cards, takes longer than the old whip out and swipe thing also.

The convenience over cash is waning. It's still barely more convenient, but the slower these things get, the less it would bother me to use cash.
 
Cash is still WAY less convenient and carries far more risk. I have no desire to carry a wad of cash and pocket full of change when I could pay using a thin plastic card or phone which I already carry. If my credit card is stolen, I'm out nothing. If my cash is stolen, better luck next time.

In my experience, the extra processing time for a chip transaction is being way overblown. If you know what to expect, it's a few extra seconds at most. Still faster than waiting for someone to come up with exact change or whip out the ever-irritating checkbook at the cashier. Small price to pay for the additional security.

The big problem with chip transactions is that the industry has done a poor job with introduction, so often neither customers nor cashiers are sure about when and how the chip transaction works. I was once in the checkout line at Target (one of the early adopters who forced the chip transaction for chip-enabled cards) and a woman ahead of me kept trying to "swipe" the chip card in the chip reader. Neither the customer nor the cashier knew why it wasn't working. After several attempts, she finally pulled out a card without a chip and just swiped it. This problem seems to be SLOWLY dissipating as time goes on, and when folks are familiar with the chip transaction, the process is significantly more efficient.


JKG
 
Back
Top