Sale to non US persons

Let'sgoflying!

Let'sgoflying!

Touchdown! Greaser!
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Dave Taylor
a Mx national is showing interest in my plane.
Probably legit, but how to avoid a scam?
Ok to ask for image of photo ID - or is $$ in escrow enough?
 
Image of a photo ID is useless. Ask me about the guy in Hong Kong who wanted to buy my house.

Escrow is the answer. No one gets anything until they have fulfilled their legal obligation.
 
A little worried about our government's new 'reporting of large transactions thing' (my bank notified me about this just Wed and the potential buyer showed up on Fri!) ....if they tie this cash transaction to a foreign national. Well, over-reporting - ie a false positive because this is just an ordinary cash-for-plane deal on the up and up, and I'd hate to see some overzealous inspector think it's something else.
 
talk to one of the escrow agencies in OKC about their experience with this sort of thing.
 
He brings cash or proper funds, you make out bill of sale. you send the bill of sale and application for registration to the FAA.
That is all there is to it.
It is the buyers problem getting it out of country, if they wish.
 
There is liability for you if the funds can be accused of being from ill gotten gains such as dope or corruption schemes. Example.....Buyer completes sale, you are tickled happy, FED finds out money was from a drug desler(or thinks it was), asset forfeiture occurs, you fight for years to get money back, nobody ever gets charged, you die, government keeps money. Sellers have a due diligence requirement in the Feds eyes.
 
Unit74 said:
There is liability for you if the funds can be accused of being from ill gotten gains such as dope or corruption schemes. Example.....Buyer completes sale, you are tickled happy, FED finds out money was from a drug desler(or thinks it was), asset forfeiture occurs, you fight for years to get money back, nobody ever gets charged, you die, government keeps money. Sellers have a due diligence requirement in the Feds eyes.
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I suppose anything is possible. But I've been shipping planes to overseas buyers for a number of years now and haven't seen or heard of anything like your example. The escrow companies in OKC all know how to work with foreign buyers and how to protect the assets of both the buyer and seller. Happens everyday.
 
First question id have is how much are we talking about? A $12k airplane is a lot different than a $150k one.
 
Htaylor said:
I suppose anything is possible. But I've been shipping planes to overseas buyers for a number of years now and haven't seen or heard of anything like your example. The escrow companies in OKC all know how to work with foreign buyers and how to protect the assets of both the buyer and seller. Happens everyday.
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It was one of those heard it from a friend stories so totally unreliable. But I suppose possible.
 
When you say “Mx national” you know that he/she is not a US Citizen or Permanent Resident, makes a big difference
 
Mexico, Argentina, Bolivia, Columbia & Peru want this airplane now.

Is it safe to give out wiring instructions?
It would essentially mean making my routing & bank account numbers plus name & account type public.
 
No, no, no, no. no. Use an escrow service. If they won't, they were likely scammers anyhow.

As far as I know, nothing keeps you from selling to Central/South Americans. They're enjoined from registering the plane back in the US. You should be sure that your escrow service properly reports the sale to the FAA. When this plane gets interdicted, you want proof you are not involved.
 
Just wondering what an escrow service does to protect their account from fraud that I can't do with my wiring instructions. They probably do the same thing, hand over wiring instructions.
And I have, in the course of business, given out wiring instructions to Mexican businessmen who I really don't know.
For the airplane sale, I will use an escrow service.
Just wondering from the point of 'revealing wiring instructions', how they don't expose their bank account to risk as much as I would be. Maybe they use a new, empty account each time? I didn't think outsiders could pull money from an account with wiring instructions.
 
There's little threat, but you'd need to keep an eye out carefully. Also, you need to contact your bank. Sometimes the wiring instructions are NOT the same as your ABN routing numbers on the check (don't ask me why, but I got caught taking a $7MM transfer in on my account once).

The issue is, that if someone won't use the escrow service, there's a strong chance of fraud. Nobody in their right mind would send you money by wire without a bill of sale executed. You'd be insane to issue a bill of sale without having the funds in hand.
 
Let'sgoflying! said:
Just wondering what an escrow service does to protect their account from fraud that I can't do with my wiring instructions. They probably do the same thing, hand over wiring instructions.
And I have, in the course of business, given out wiring instructions to Mexican businessmen who I really don't know.
For the airplane sale, I will use an escrow service.
Just wondering from the point of 'revealing wiring instructions', how they don't expose their bank account to risk as much as I would be. Maybe they use a new, empty account each time? I didn't think outsiders could pull money from an account with wiring instructions.
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It really depends on how things are set up. I have an electronic thingamy which is used to verify my outgoing wiring instructions. In the bad old days it was just a form that was signed and faxed to the bank. Fraud was possible with that system.
 
Other than cost (and I have absolutely no idea how much that would be), why would you NOT use an escrow service? It can only protect you. Personally, I would go through a broker, although I know how many people feel about brokers. But I really trust the guy I worked with. He got me a good price for the plane I sold and he got me a good price on the plane he found for me. And he also set up a sales-tax exchange where I didn't have to pay sales tax on an amount equal to the value of my trade. And he handled all the forms and paperwork (including escrow).
 
Escrow. The ones on OKC really know their stiff. I sold a plane that got exported to Australia. Sold it to a US concern who deregistered it and exported it...

Someone above said that if the buyer avoids escrow, they are iffy...I have to agree...escrow if safe to both ends of the transaction...
 
Escrow also makes it cleaner on cross-border transactions in the event that the buyer is on some form of watch list or uses the plane for purposes that get the attention of US authorities. You'll not avoid questioning, but you can certainly point to the escrow service to show that the transaction was likely above board. Not the only risk, but one that you should be aware of.
 
Escrow is the only way. I've used AirTitle/Powell for all my airplanes - they're great. With an escrow your buyers don't know your bank info. Money comes into escrow and until all parties are happy, everything is signed, then money gets released and transfer happens.
 
Let'sgoflying! said:
A little worried about our government's new 'reporting of large transactions thing' (my bank notified me about this just Wed and the potential buyer showed up on Fri!) ....if they tie this cash transaction to a foreign national. Well, over-reporting - ie a false positive because this is just an ordinary cash-for-plane deal on the up and up, and I'd hate to see some overzealous inspector think it's something else.
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As long as he is not paying for it with blow, you should be ok!
 
How do you know this non-US person isn't a terrorist? Many of them might be. Would you eat a skittle if there was a poison one in the bag? What if they use it to attack the Bank of America building in Tampa? Can you even imagine what that would be like?
 
Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe said:
How do you know this non-US person isn't a terrorist? Many of them might be. Would you eat a skittle if there was a poison one in the bag? What if they use it to attack the Bank of America building in Tampa? Can you even imagine what that would be like?
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A Mexican terrorist? When has that ever been a thing? Or are you being sarcastic? I can't actually tell.
 
arnoha said:
A Mexican terrorist? When has that ever been a thing? Or are you being sarcastic? I can't actually tell.
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The reference to the Bank of America building in Tampa is a pretty big clue!
 
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