Safety Pilot Oops

bjohnson

bjohnson

Line Up and Wait
Joined
Nov 11, 2006
Messages
652
Location
Chattanooga, TN
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Display name:
Mooney Driver
Bill and I are both IR and act as safety pilot for each other often. We had the same CFII and took our check rides on the same day about a year ago. Last night Bill and I departed CHA after dark to do a practice GPS approach into 9A5. Bill was under the hood and I was acting as safety pilot. We just bought a 496 in preparation for the Mooney we have under contract. About 50% of my attention was on playing with the 496 and the other 50% was looking out for traffic. While I was playing with the 496 we completely blew through one of the minimum altitudes which I didn’t catch and we kept descending.:eek: I was looking outside and noticed street lights getting brighter and closer than I remember. Bill caught the mistake just as I was starting to crosscheck the 430 with the approach plate and he corrected with a full power Vx climb back to the correct altitude of 2700. Wow what a wake up call!!:yes: I strongly feel I would not have let this happen if it was daylight. We had two more practice approaches that evening and my attention was 100% focused on our flight. After this experience I will definitely be paying more attention to the duties at hand. By not paying attention I increased the risk of danger and have let down a fellow pilot/friend.

Thoughts that come to mind after this experience are:
  • Don't let it happen again!!
  • Don't get distracted.
  • An IR pilot will always be my Safety Pilot
  • When I act as Safety Pilot I will be focused on looking for traffic and at the approach plates.
 
You probably have already heard the statement, "An airplane makes for horrible classroom." That wasn't a good time to learn a new piece of equipment as you found out.

But, learn it on the ground then it would make a great tool for the safety pilot for situational awareness during the approach along with the plate and good view of the altimeter. And, of course, first and foremost, the view to the outside would be priceless.
 
Safety piloting is one of those rare times when we GA pilots need to use true CRM; it is vitally important, then, that both pilots always brief what they are doing, who's doing what and what the hooded pilot expects. This should include briefing the approach.
 
Really good article in Flying this month in the Aftermath column. Many many folks tend to treat the safety pilot role as strictly traffic avoidance. Making the safety pilot act as a full crew member is much safer, assuming you communicate well and understand your respective duties.
 
Fortunately for the majority of us we will learn from our mistakes which will make us better pilots. It’s unfortunate for the few who perish due to their mistakes. My dad, who is a retired captain for NWA with 30k hours, has always told me the IR ticket is just a license to learn. Practice just doesn’t make it perfect. Perfect Practice makes it perfect.
 
bjohnson said:
Thoughts that come to mind after this experience are:
  • Don't let it happen again!!
  • Don't get distracted.
  • An IR pilot will always be my Safety Pilot
  • When I act as Safety Pilot I will be focused on looking for traffic and at the approach plates.
Click to expand...

The thing that comes to my mind about this event is related to the night flying aspect of it. In some situations, for example with no moon in a sparse hilly or mountainous geographic area with few lights, flying VFR is really an awful lot like flying IFR. In this case, you, as safety pilot are almost in some ways at a disadvantage relative to the pilot flying, unless you are carefully monitoring the instruments and maybe even have your own copy of the approach chart. In this case, I agree that having an IR rated safety pilot would seem to be a great safety advantage... or maybe even reconsider whether or not to DO practice approaches in this situation if there are other reasonable options. It seems like maybe a bad thing to have your safety pilot dependent on instrument readings, rather than visual observation, to avoid CFIT.

If the approaches are during the daytime, I don't see why a competent non-IR safety pilot would create a significant safety problem.

Judd
 
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I don't feel that I need a SP to help me fly the plane or look at the instruments while practicing under the hood. I just want him/h to maintain a meticulous watch outside the plane.
 
Brent:

About the only close call I can remember in recent years was when I agreed to ride with a couple guys in a V-tail. They were IR rated, and constantly crowed 'bout how good they were on the gauges.

On the return, we departed San Diego, Montgomery with a low ceiling. Shortly after departure while in the soup, the pilot (left seat) leaned over to help the guy in the right seat who couldn't get the gps programed. After the bank angle passed 40 degrees right (they weren't supposed to be turning), I finally loudly spoke up with "Attitude". I think we may have gotten to 60 degrees bank before the guy got it wings level again. Neither of them had any idea how long they had focused on the gps. I would guess 15 to 20 seconds without ever looking up.

I guess my point is, it's very easy to begin focusing on something like the GPS and to not realize how long your attention has been focused away from flying. This is an excellent lesson for all of us. Thanks for raising it.

No more back seat in IMC for me unless I really know who's flying and how good they are (and I still wouldn't like it).

Best,

Dave
 
bjohnson said:
While I was playing with the 496 we completely blew through one of the minimum altitudes which I didn’t catch and we kept descending.:eek: I was looking outside and noticed street lights getting brighter and closer than I remember. Bill caught the mistake just as I was starting to crosscheck the 430 with the approach plate and he corrected with a full power Vx climb back to the correct altitude of 2700. Wow what a wake up call!!:yes:
Click to expand...

A definiate cock-up. Mixed up on waypoints and thought I was at the FAF waypoint and commenced decending to the MDA. As I passed thru 2000, I realized my mistake, cobbed it, pitched Vx, and climbed back to 2700. Luckily, this app runs down a valley.

First, and hopefully last time I do something like this...dumb dumb dumb. :( Hadn't flown a GPS approach in a long while (a few months).
 
Bill M. said:
I don't feel that I need a SP to help me fly the plane or look at the instruments while practicing under the hood. I just want him/h to maintain a meticulous watch outside the plane.
Click to expand...

And if he sees terrain, as opposed to planes, what should he do?
 
Dave Siciliano said:
No more back seat in IMC for me unless I really know who's flying and how good they are (and I still wouldn't like it).
Click to expand...

I don't like back seat flying in any weather. There are a select number of pilots on this forum that I would feel safe sleeping in the back. But most of the time if I do it--I'm nervous and uncomfortable the whole time.
 
For myself, when learning a new piece of equipment like this, I prefer to go up VFR and work with it first, before anyone is under the hood and distracted. Too many close calls in the past when I wasn't doing anything new....
 
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