Safety Pilot get compensation?

[ajstoner21]

I know there is a lot of discussion about logging versus acting as PIC with respect to serving as a safety pilot, however, what do the FARs say about receiving compensation for time as a safety pilot?

If you are only a private pilot, are you allowed to receive compenstation for time spent as a safety pilot (with prior agreement to log PIC time due to being a required crew member during the portion of the flight the sole manipulator of controls is in simulated IMC)?

I feel I am opening this up for discussion once again, but, by what the FARs and the Chief Counsel interpetation state (http://www.faa.gov/about/office_org...interpretations/data/interps/2009/Gebhart.pdf)

If on a cross country flight, pilot A who is under the hood is logging PIC for the entire flight due to being the sole manipulator of controls, and pilot B who is serving as safety pilot is logging PIC for portion of flight while pilot A is under-the-hood in simulated IMC, who is acting PIC?

I think the answer to whether the safety pilot may receive compensation depends on if they are acting PIC. If they are acting as PIC, I would imagine they need to be a commercial pilot to receive compensation, but if they are not acting, and only logging....?

 

[gismo]

I know there is a lot of discussion about logging versus acting as PIC with respect to serving as a safety pilot, however, what do the FARs say about receiving compensation for time as a safety pilot?

If you are only a private pilot, are you allowed to receive compenstation for time spent as a safety pilot (with prior agreement to log PIC time due to being a required crew member during the portion of the flight the sole manipulator of controls is in simulated IMC)?

I feel I am opening this up for discussion once again, but, by what the FARs and the Chief Counsel interpetation state (http://www.faa.gov/about/office_org...interpretations/data/interps/2009/Gebhart.pdf)

If on a cross country flight, pilot A who is under the hood is logging PIC for the entire flight due to being the sole manipulator of controls, and pilot B who is serving as safety pilot is logging PIC for portion of flight while pilot A is under-the-hood in simulated IMC, who is acting PIC?

The PIC for any flight involving more than one PIC seated at a control station and qualified i.e. rated in category and class (and type if that's required), current for the type of operation, and with any necessary endorsements, needs to be determined prior to the flight by agreement between the pilots. In your example as long as both pilots were qualified to act as legal PIC either one could do so. There could be some limitations on this imposed by insurance requirements and/or rental agreements but that's outside of the FAA's perview. Also, it's possible that if one of the pilot's is a CFI, they may be deemed acting PIC by the FAA even if the pilot's themselves agreed to a different arrangement.

I think the answer to whether the safety pilot may receive compensation depends on if they are acting PIC. If they are acting as PIC, I would imagine they need to be a commercial pilot to receive compensation, but if they are not acting, and only logging....?

AFaIK, the issue of compensation has no effect on a pilot's ability to log PIC time. The FARs only limit compensation for a pilot acting as PIC, so I'd have to agree that there's no FAR violation if a pilot receives compensation when acting as a safety pilot and not acting as PIC for the flight. I'd also bet that this is NOT the intention of the writers of the FARs but this certainly seems to be the literal interpretation of what they wrote.

 

[bender52]

Agree, PIC and compensation are not tied together. I'm a private pilot who has acted as a safety pilot for other folks here to keep instrument currency. I've never been compensated (nor have I ask to be either). But on the other hand, other folks have been safety pilots for me. I guess that's the compensation...

 

[JeffDG]

My original thought was "nope", but on closer reading...

You're either covered by 61.113 or 61.117

no person who holds a private pilot certificate may act as pilot in command of an aircraft that is carrying passengers or property for compensation or hire; nor may that person, for compensation or hire, act as pilot in command of an aircraft.

no private pilot may, for compensation or hire, act as second in command of an aircraft that is type certificated for more than one pilot

The specific language of "type certificated" excludes the common "operated under regulations requiring more than one..." that's used for PIC logging rules...so that prohibition for acting as SIC for compensation is not applicable to the situation...interesting.

 

[gismo]

The specific language of "type certificated" excludes the common "operated under regulations requiring more than one..." that's used for PIC logging rules...so that prohibition for acting as SIC for compensation is not applicable to the situation...interesting.

Not only that, but even though we have often been told that acting as a safety pilot is loggable as SIC I don't think that any mention of SIC in part 61 really applies to safety pilots.

Section 61.55 which deals with pilot qualifications for SIC starts with:

Sec. 61.55 Second-in-command qualifications.(a) A person may serve as a second-in-command of an aircraft type certificated for more than one required pilot flight crewmember or in operations requiring a second-in-command pilot flight crewmember only if that person holds:...

The subsequent requirements include detailed knowledge of aircraft systems, 3 takeoffs and landings as sole manipulator etc. none of which have ever been applied as prerequisites for safety pilots who weren't acting as PIC.

 

[JeffDG]

Not only that, but even though we have often been told that acting as a safety pilot is loggable as SIC I don't think that any mention of SIC in part 61 really applies to safety pilots.

Section 61.55 which deals with pilot qualifications for SIC starts with:


The subsequent requirements include detailed knowledge of aircraft systems, 3 takeoffs and landings as sole manipulator etc. none of which have ever been applied as prerequisites for safety pilots who weren't acting as PIC.

But 61.55(d)(4) exempts Safety Pilots from those requirements:

Sec. 61.55 Second-in-command qualifications.

(a) Except as provided in paragraph (d) of this section, no person
may serve as a second in command of an aircraft type certificated for
more than one required pilot flight crewmember or in operations
requiring a second in command unless that person holds:
(d) This section does not apply to a person who is:
(4) Designated as a safety pilot for purposes required by
Sec. 91.109(b) of this chapter.

 

[TMetzinger]

I've logged SIC several times while a safety pilot.

 

[EdFred]

I've logged SIC several times while a safety pilot.

Did you get paid for it?

 

[JeffDG]

Did you get paid for it?

If so, where...even though I'll sit right seat for free, if there's a sucker gentleman who wishes to pay, I'm there!

 

[poadeleted20]

The FAA Chief Counsel was asked some time back whether PP safety pilots would be violating the rules on compensation by logging SIC time (flight time normally being considered as compensation). They said that as an exception to the general rule on PP's and compensation, the safety could log the time. So, although it may not be clearly stated in the rules, I'm about as sure as I can be that if you ask the FAA Chief Counsel this specific question, they'll tell you that you cannot receive compensation other than the time logged for acting as a safety pilot unless you hold a CP or ATP.