Safety Pilot advice

[Let'sgoflying!]

A few questions arose with the instrument student I safetied for tonight:
-he wanted me to sign his logbook for these flights but I didn't know if there was an official wording or not - or even if I really need to.
-what is the smallest radius arc permitted by terps? Ive seen 7nm but can't recall a smaller one.
-how did terps get an acronym like that anyway, it doesn't resemble the words that I can tell!

I want to give useful advice to this student. Tonight I said, I think you are dropping your scan too long to look at your landing checklists, setting the OBS, etc and that is why you look up to find yourself way off heading and altitude.
I think a person should drop the scan for 3-5 seconds max to take care of such chores when handflying.
Also, when you do find yourself off, don't try for the immediate correction. You need to make the corrections slow and cautiously instead of hammering the yoke left/right, up/down like that. It took a few seconds to get off course, it will take a few seconds to get back on - don't try to fix it immediately.

Advice on the advice is welcome! Should a safety pilot just shut up?

 

[spiderweb]

A few questions arose with the instrument student I safetied for tonight:
-he wanted me to sign his logbook for these flights but I didn't know if there was an official wording or not - or even if I really need to.

I don't think you need to sign it at all. He just has to put your name in the book, and the rest of it. ..

I want to give useful advice to this student. Tonight I said, I think you are dropping your scan too long to look at your landing checklists, setting the OBS, etc and that is why you look up to find yourself way off heading and altitude.
I think a person should drop the scan for 3-5 seconds max to take care of such chores when handflying.
Also, when you do find yourself off, don't try for the immediate correction. You need to make the corrections slow and cautiously instead of hammering the yoke left/right, up/down like that. It took a few seconds to get off course, it will take a few seconds to get back on - don't try to fix it immediately.

Advice on the advice is welcome! Should a safety pilot just shut up?

I don't think a safety pilot should probably teach (and that would be a strong temptation for me). The reason for this is that the student's teacher might have them on some sort of a "program" which you might mess with. Also, there is a danger with an inexperienced IR guy like me giving them bad ideas.

I think that an experienced IR pilot like you, though, could at least say what he noticed during the flight, and maybe offer up what they do, "I saw that you were looking at your prelanding checklist for ten seconds in a row. What I do is keep a finger on the checklist, and do a quick scan after two or three checklist items, to prevent me from getting off."

If it were me, I think at most I'd let the pilot know what I do, but remind him that it is up to him and his instructor to work out their system.

 

[tonycondon]

i have found that the logbook usually gets signed to prove that the hood time was legit. your advice looks like it came from a CFII, so id say keep it up. just be careful that everything you say is right, no need to give misinformation. from your experience level, i would think he chose you as a safety pilot because of that and was hoping to learn something, so tell him what you know!

 

[ejensen]

The only thing required is your name but I've had pilots insist on a signature. I just sign my name, my certificate # and the words 'Safety Pilot'.

How much technique is discussed depend on my relationship with the pilot. I don't want to pretend to be a CFII but a good discussion between friends is OK.

 

[Don Jones]

A few questions arose with the instrument student I safetied for tonight:
-he wanted me to sign his logbook for these flights but I didn't know if there was an official wording or not - or even if I really need to.
-what is the smallest radius arc permitted by terps? Ive seen 7nm but can't recall a smaller one.
-how did terps get an acronym like that anyway, it doesn't resemble the words that I can tell!

I want to give useful advice to this student. Tonight I said, I think you are dropping your scan too long to look at your landing checklists, setting the OBS, etc and that is why you look up to find yourself way off heading and altitude.
I think a person should drop the scan for 3-5 seconds max to take care of such chores when handflying.
Also, when you do find yourself off, don't try for the immediate correction. You need to make the corrections slow and cautiously instead of hammering the yoke left/right, up/down like that. It took a few seconds to get off course, it will take a few seconds to get back on - don't try to fix it immediately.

Advice on the advice is welcome! Should a safety pilot just shut up?

Dave,
The signature is not required per 61.51 (b)(1)(v) only the name of the safety pilot is required. I can't imagine hints and tips coming from someone as experienced as yourself doing any harm as long as it does not conflict with what his instructor is telling him. I sit as safety pilot sometimes for my CFII and sometimes tell him about things I see him doing, however, I spend most of my time doing my job as safety pilot and keep us from running into anything. The temptation is strong for all of us to teach in this situation. Any thoughts on getting that CFII? I bet you would be a great instructor!
Don

§ 61.51 Pilot logbooks.
(a) Training time and aeronautical experience. Each person must document and record the following time in a manner acceptable to the Administrator:
(1) Training and aeronautical experience used to meet the requirements for a certificate, rating, or flight review of this part.
(2) The aeronautical experience required for meeting the recent flight experience requirements of this part.
(b) Logbook entries. For the purposes of meeting the requirements of paragraph (a) of this section, each person must enter the following information for each flight or lesson logged:
(1) General—
(i) Date.
(ii) Total flight time or lesson time.
(iii) Location where the aircraft departed and arrived, or for lessons in a flight simulator or flight training device, the location where the lesson occurred.
(iv) Type and identification of aircraft, flight simulator, or flight training device, as appropriate.
(v) The name of a safety pilot, if required by §91.109(b) of this chapter.

 

[ggroves]

i have found that the logbook usually gets signed to prove that the hood time was legit.

Not required nor would I do it. As a CFII, putting my cert.# and signature in someone's logbook implies instruction, not safety pilot. If you want my signature, you'll pay me $40 an hour for my expertise and so I can defray the cost of my liability insurance. If I'm going along as safety pilot, I'll keep you (and me) safe and that's about it.

Greg
CFII

 

[Let'sgoflying!]

Thanks guys! I guess I might sign the log but put "safety pilot" beside it so that it is clear what the relationship is.
As for the instructing, I too am very aware and concerned of what I am telling him... because of this I am doing pre and post flight briefings with his cfii (who was also mine) and letting him (the cfii) know what is going on. I also explained to the student that he is getting personal opinion from me and bonafide instruction from the cfii; and the latter will always trump the former. You guys are great!

 

[grattonja]

My wife and I always sign each other's books when safety piloting, but the notation in the log book clearly says "safety pilot". That is the requirement of the regs.

I give advice or not based on what the pilot wants, and what the situation is. For my wife, if I see something that appears obvious to me, I will probably tell her. If it seems like style/pilot differences, I have learned to keep my trap shut. She does about the same for me.

Jim G

 

[Dave Siciliano]

Dave:

I've never had a safety pilot sign my log book. I do note his name in case anyone every wanted to verify the flight.

Of course, there's a fine line between instructin and just helpin. I'm sure you're great at the latter!! When I safety pilot, which isn't real often, I just try to keep the pilot safe! Other than that, I try to only add what the pilot asks about: not give a lecture. There are suttle ways to point things out that aren't dangerous, but could use attention.

Sounds like you're an excellent mentor to me.

Dave

 

[gkainz]

-how did terps get an acronym like that anyway, it doesn't resemble the words that I can tell!

Do you mean the University of Maryland gang or TERminal instrument ProcedureS

 

[TMetzinger]

I always just log the safety pilots name (as required), and when I act as safety pilot the hooded pilot logs my name. I never sign anything.

I also never act as safety pilot for an IR student - the temptation to give advice is too great, and a student really needs consistency until he/she has enough experience to make up their own alterations. When I fly with rated pilots, we often discuss subtle differences in how we do things (how far out we brief the approach, for instance, and what items we brief). We generally always learn something from each other even if we aren't inspired to change our ways.

 

[Let'sgoflying!]

Do you mean the University of Maryland gang or TERminal instrument ProcedureS

I figured their were rules about these things! As in, 'you must use only the first letters of a phrase to construct an acronym'. Ah well I can relax a little I guess!

 

[Dave Krall CFII]

Not FAA required, but I always have them sign, labeled as safety pilot, so there is some proof of their service other than me just putting their cert. # in my logbook.