Sad Day in France

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What pulls my chain is the news organizations wheel out hypocrite Peter King as expert on terrorism, when these types of attacks happen.
 
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Event described on Slate -
  • The truck accelerated into pedestrians along the city’s seaside Promenade des Anglais following a fireworks display.
  • The driver of the truck got out of the vehicle and fired on the crowd.
  • Police shot and killed the driver.
  • Firearms, explosives, and grenades were found inside the truck.
  • The death toll currently stands at 80.
  • France President Francois Hollande extends national state of emergency for three months beyond original July 26th expiration date.
  • Hollande says the attack had a "terrorist character."

So, he didn't just plow through, he also got out at some point and started shooting. Sounds like he was heavily armed... this could have ended even worse had police not killed him.

As 6PC said, this is the norm now. I barely blinked when I saw the headlines this morning. Something has to give.

ETA: Just read a report saying the grenades were fake. Why the heck would he have fake grenades?
 
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France has got it bad. They imported lots of Muslim North Africans as their cheap labor. Never really brought them into the fold. Now they have all these French citizens who really don't feel part of the deal. Just a huge base for a foreign insurgency to use or radicalize.
Muslims in the US feel American, they even help our security services track down terrorists. That is, some current politicians not withstanding.
 
This isn't the norm in western societies yet, but it's going to become more normal if people (and politicians) don't recognize it as the culture clash that it is. Not everyone who walks through the proverbial border door has respect for the culture that many of us take for granted every day.


JKG
 
steingar said:
Muslims in the US feel American, they even help our security services track down terrorists. That is, some current politicians not withstanding.
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That seems to have worked out really well so far, given the lack of Muslim-inspired or derived attacks on our soil. I'm sure that any rogue "refugees" from the Middle East that we're importing will be immediately reported to authorities and stopped before anything bad happens here.


JKG
 
The problem with France (and Britain, and Germany) is that the Muslim population resides in large enclaves, which are basically sub-cities and they aren't that small, and it's been that way for decades. There has been no assimilation. And it's been a problem, just not a widely reported one until recently. This largely hasn't been the case in the U.S.
 
JGoodish said:
This isn't the norm in western societies yet, but it's going to become more normal if people (and politicians) don't recognize it as the culture clash that it is. Not everyone who walks through the proverbial border door has respect for the culture that many of us take for granted every day.


JKG
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Boston , San Bernadino, Orlando. It very much is the new norm in the west. And there's nothing that can be done. Especially the rogue individuals with no real allegiance to actual factions.
 
JGoodish said:
This isn't the norm in western societies yet, but it's going to become more normal if people (and politicians) don't recognize it as the culture clash that it is. Not everyone who walks through the proverbial border door has respect for the culture that many of us take for granted every day.


JKG
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Not sure if you're implying that terrorist actions are the norm in Muslim societies, but I'm pretty sure that isn't true. And lack of respect for the culture you're moving into doesn't necessarily imply that you're inclined to kill people. Lots of immigrant communities harbor smouldering contempt for the societies they're embedded in, but they don't turn violent absent other factors.

There's a specific jihad "culture" that appeals to a certain subset of (mostly) young Muslims. That's what needs to be dealt with... and IMO not by banning Muslims from entry to the country.
 
I thought we were going after these extreme Isis types along with a few other countries? Did that all stop? I wa glad to hear when Russia got involved but then all we could do was whine about it. The time is fast approaching when enough is enough and the nations need to weed out these thugs.
With all these migrants flooding the continents at an alarming rate I don't think it will be long before we see some of these events at an increasingly frequent interval.

It is also well past the time where we need to start banning large trucks and require mental health checks, background check etc before you can drive a truck. A national registry needs to be set up for all people who own a large truck and a waiting period for all new licenses and purchases of large trucks. Trucks have proven to be a weapon of war and as such should not be able to be purchased by ordinary citizens without the proper approval of law enforcement and government oversight.
 
Acrodustertoo said:
I thought we were going after these extreme Isis types along with a few other countries? Did that all stop?
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Nope, hasn't stopped. Still going on and making progress every day. Still lots of work to do though, obviously.

Acrodustertoo said:
It is also well past the time where we need to start banning large trucks and require mental health checks, background check etc before you can drive a truck. A national registry needs to be set up for all people who own a large truck and a waiting period for all new licenses and purchases of large trucks. Trucks have proven to be a weapon of war and as such should not be able to be purchased by ordinary citizens without the proper approval of law enforcement and government oversight.
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You know almost all of that exists, right?
 
I apologize for going into the realm of the political, but it is apropos to the subject. It concerns me when politicians go on TV and denigrate Muslims. Our best weapon against extremism to be be as welcoming as we can, and to make them feel at home and that they are just as American as anyone. People ascending to power by denigrating them just pushes them away. That's how you get extremism.
 
Interesting comment this morning on the news about the way European problems differ from mid-East. The talking head said it seems like their problem tends toward "radicals being Muslimized" vs "Muslims being radicalized". (Not sure how he came to that conclusion.) The end result might not be different, but how to approach the problem might be.
 
Acrodustertoo said:
I thought we were going after these extreme Isis types along with a few other countries? Did that all stop? I wa glad to hear when Russia got involved but then all we could do was whine about it. The time is fast approaching when enough is enough and the nations need to weed out these thugs.
With all these migrants flooding the continents at an alarming rate I don't think it will be long before we see some of these events at an increasingly frequent interval.

It is also well past the time where we need to start banning large trucks and require mental health checks, background check etc before you can drive a truck. A national registry needs to be set up for all people who own a large truck and a waiting period for all new licenses and purchases of large trucks. Trucks have proven to be a weapon of war and as such should not be able to be purchased by ordinary citizens without the proper approval of law enforcement and government oversight.
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Good lord, lol. Anything else you'd like to arbitrarily ban? What truck is too large to be driven by a person without a background check? 40' Semi? Class 4 Box Van? F-150? Sounds like a solution that won't work in search of a problem that doesn't exist.
 
Ryder trucks got some scrutiny in the US over the last couple decades, remember that?
 
Acrodustertoo said:
I thought we were going after these extreme Isis types along with a few other countries? Did that all stop? I wa glad to hear when Russia got involved but then all we could do was whine about it. The time is fast approaching when enough is enough and the nations need to weed out these thugs.
With all these migrants flooding the continents at an alarming rate I don't think it will be long before we see some of these events at an increasingly frequent interval.

It is also well past the time where we need to start banning large trucks and require mental health checks, background check etc before you can drive a truck. A national registry needs to be set up for all people who own a large truck and a waiting period for all new licenses and purchases of large trucks. Trucks have proven to be a weapon of war and as such should not be able to be purchased by ordinary citizens without the proper approval of law enforcement and government oversight.
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I feel like I had to pass a test before I could drive. I believe I was required to take a 6 week training course. I recall having to aquire a license and also insurance which required a lot of background checking. Feels like every year I have to get my registration updated and have my vehicle inspected to make sure it meets regulations. So I think we are about there.
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
I feel like I had to pass a test before I could drive. I believe I was required to take a 6 week training course. I recall having to aquire a license and also insurance which required a lot of background checking. Feels like every year I have to get my registration updated and have my vehicle inspected to make sure it meets regulations. So I think we are about there.
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Bryan, that is solely for generating revenue. What if all that were required every time you bought a car? You had to wait and have a background check? What if you were going to buy a used car from a friend, but had to pay a new car dealer to do all the paperwork? Then, the dealer had to hold on to the car for three days before you could pick it up? Someone please just go ahead and Godwin this thread...
 
SoonerAviator said:
Good lord, lol. Anything else you'd like to arbitrarily ban? What truck is too large to be driven by a person without a background check? 40' Semi? Class 4 Box Van? F-150? Sounds like a solution that won't work in search of a problem that doesn't exist.
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You missed the sarcasm. But any truck that can kill people in large numbers - according to the clueless.
 
I guess I should have highlighted the entire last paragraph with a "sarcasm alert" or a "brought to you by the Redundancy Department of Redundancy" special seal.

My bad.
 
172andyou said:
False. License plates and city stickers are about 95% for revenue, but drivers licenses have a large safety aspect to them.
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Not after they are first issued - at least not here. No tests, no nothing. Just go in, pay your money for renewal and walk out.
 
Anything with energy. Give anything velocity and it can be a weapon, car, plane, piece of lead. Doesn't matter. Energy kills. Can't ban energy.

E = 1/2mv^2

That's just kinetic energy.

Electrical, Chemical, Thermal. All sorts of energy can kill people en masse.
 
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azure said:
Not sure if you're implying that terrorist actions are the norm in Muslim societies, but I'm pretty sure that isn't true. And lack of respect for the culture you're moving into doesn't necessarily imply that you're inclined to kill people. Lots of immigrant communities harbor smouldering contempt for the societies they're embedded in, but they don't turn violent absent other factors.
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No, I'm saying that fundamentalist Islam (not just "radical" or "jihadist" Islam) is not compatible with Western culture. The reason that these same problems don't exist in Muslim countries is because they operate as absolute theocracies, but those societies to not possess, tolerate, nor celebrate the same values as most Western countries.

I personally don't think that we should ban Muslims from the U.S., I think that we should ban everyone who doesn't want to assimilate and adopt our general values and culture. Otherwise, there will always be some type of conflict that threatens those values and that culture.


JKG
 
Mtns2Skies said:
Anything with energy. Give anything velocity and it can be a weapon, car, plane, piece of lead. Doesn't matter. Energy kills. Can't ban energy.

E = 1/2mv^2

That's just kinetic energy.

Electrical, Chemical, Thermal. All sorts of energy can kill people en masse.
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You completely missed what was being said.
 
172andyou said:
Then we agree.
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About what? Drivers licenses aren't about safety. If they were, then when we renewed we would have to take refresher tests to make sure we still know how to drive properly, but we don't, so they aren't. It's just a way to track people and get some $$.
 
JGoodish said:
I think that we should ban everyone who doesn't want to assimilate and adopt our general values and culture. Otherwise, there will always be some type of conflict that threatens those values and that culture.
JKG
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Your pretty much describing most if not all of Dade county Florida , as well as parts of Broward.
 
Art VanDelay said:
Your pretty much describing most if not all of Dade county Florida , as well as parts of Broward.
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I'm not talking about immigrant ethnic groups who come here, learn the language, and build their own communities which peacefully and respectfully exist with the rest of us. This country is full of those types of communities, and that includes some Muslim communities, and they've made wonderful contributions. It's the folks who don't have respect for our values and culture (and that includes learning English) who pose the problem. The ones who want to kill us because of our values and culture are an even bigger problem.


JKG
 
JGoodish said:
No, I'm saying that fundamentalist Islam (not just "radical" or "jihadist" Islam) is not compatible with Western culture. The reason that these same problems don't exist in Muslim countries is because they operate as absolute theocracies, but those societies to not possess, tolerate, nor celebrate the same values as most Western countries.
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I don't think ANY form of religious fundamentalism is compatible with Western culture, including fundamentalist Christianity. But obviously we can't ban it, nor would it be constitutional to try. The same thing is true of Islam.
I personally don't think that we should ban Muslims from the U.S., I think that we should ban everyone who doesn't want to assimilate and adopt our general values and culture. Otherwise, there will always be some type of conflict that threatens those values and that culture.
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Good luck with that. The Constitution gives people the freedom to assimilate or not, as they please. As long as they don't try to commit criminal acts, there is really nothing you can do.

Actually, that's a very French attitude... see how successful the French have been with their anti-communautarisme.
 
azure said:
I don't think ANY form of religious fundamentalism is compatible with Western culture, including fundamentalist Christianity. But obviously we can't ban it, nor would it be constitutional to try. The same thing is true of Islam.
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We can't "ban" it, but we can ban people who want to bring it here from entering and remaining in the country. I don't have to wonder how tolerant Iran or Saudi Arabia would be to Western values if I were to immigrate there and live according to my own Western values, and quite frankly I wouldn't expect them to be tolerant. The fact that some people in the west want to appease folks who essentially want the reverse to be true is going to destroy our way of life.

Fundamentalist Christianity is completely compatible with Western culture. In fact, Western cultural values are based upon it. Theocracy is of course not compatible with democracy, which is a large part of the problem with Muslims who immigrate to Western countries from Islamic theocracies.


azure said:
Good luck with that. The Constitution gives people the freedom to assimilate or not, as they please. As long as they don't try to commit criminal acts, there is really nothing you can do.

Actually, that's a very French attitude... see how successful the French have been with their anti-communautarisme.
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The French for years have permitted Islamic immigration unchecked, specifically without a requirement to assimilate.

The U.S. Constitution absolutely does not require that we accommodate any immigration at all, and it does require that those who come here abide by the laws and regulations which reflect our values and govern our way of life. If we allow immigration of those who want to change our culture and values, regardless of religion but especially those who want to take those values back to the stone age, that's exactly what the result is going to be.


JKG
 
NJP_MAN said:
Yes Islam is the commonality. Good luck trying to wipe out Islam. We aren't even attacking them and they are killing people for no reason. Just wait until the rest of the world starts telling them they can't do something. There is really nothing that can be done within the guidelines of the constitution.
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We don't have to "wipe out" Islam, but there's nothing in the Constitution which requires us to permit anyone entry into this country. Again, the "nothing can be done" excuse is complete nonsense. We need to stop permitting folks entry who intend ill will toward us. Period. That used to be called "common sense."


JKG
 
Cajun_Flyer said:
Doesn't sound like it. Reports right now list him as a French national of Tunisian descent.
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Now being reported by NPR that he was in France on a work visa.

Of course, they are also reporting (live from the terrorist ' s French neighborhood) that his neighbors are saying that this attack had "nothing to do with Islam".

Whew, man, glad to hear it! We all thought this attack was part of a larger pattern of Islamic violence, worldwide. Good thing NPR cleared that up for us....
 
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