SAC to VGT route

cocolos

cocolos

Pre-takeoff checklist
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cocolos
What's the best route to take in a pa28 from SAC to VGT? I've been thinking it's best just go south all the way to lancaster then cut across. What route would you guys/gals suggest?
 
I cross the Sierras at Mammoth Pass (Just North of KMMH), and take a straight shot from KBIH to KVGT at 11.5K/12.5K avoiding R-4808s.

Not a route to take if the weather sucks, but going South isn't much better. So I don't take that trip if the weather sucks.
 
Sac Arrow said:
I cross the Sierras at Mammoth Pass (Just North of KMMH), and take a straight shot from KBIH to KVGT at 11.5K/12.5K avoiding R-4808s.

Not a route to take if the weather sucks, but going South isn't much better. So I don't take that trip if the weather sucks.
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I think he has a Cherokee. I don't think the Mammoth Pass route is the best one for him. The Cherokee can get to 11.5K (barely) but you are not going to have any margin for downdrafts and such. There is a lot of rotting tin in the Mammoth Pass area. You will add at least an hour going South, though.
 
If that's all he can get then you're right, that's not a good route. I -can- get enough elevation in my Arrow to do a direct shot over the Desolation Wilderness, but..... no thanks. Did it once in the Turbo Arrow and never again. All I could see was 45 minutes worth of sheer vertical granite pinnacles rising to 13K. No forced landing there could possibly be survivable, even if they could find you afterwards.
 
Flew to Vegas last October and tried a non-around-the south route to save time. Went over 50 to near Echo summit and followed 89 over towards the valley with Alpine County in view then down to Vegas. Would be pretty safe with a modest ceiling capacity. Plenty of roads and interesting views along the way. Caught a nice tailwind too! Stopped at Furnace Creek on the way home - also an interesting stop.

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Have fun!
 
aviatingfool said:
Flew to Vegas last October and tried a non-around-the south route to save time. Went over 50 to near Echo summit and followed 89 over towards the valley with Alpine County in view then down to Vegas. Would be pretty safe with a modest ceiling capacity. Plenty of roads and interesting views along the way. Caught a nice tailwind too! Stopped at Furnace Creek on the way home - also an interesting stop.

Have fun!
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So, the 89 Route would be comfortable, staying under 12K? Just for future reference for myself.
 
aviatingfool said:
Flew to Vegas last October and tried a non-around-the south route to save time. Went over 50 to near Echo summit and followed 89 over towards the valley with Alpine County in view then down to Vegas. Would be pretty safe with a modest ceiling capacity. Plenty of roads and interesting views along the way. Caught a nice tailwind too! Stopped at Furnace Creek on the way home - also an interesting stop.

Have fun!
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That route is probably not good at gross in a 180.
 
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John221us said:
So, the 89 Route would be comfortable, staying under 12K? Just for future reference for myself.
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Yes, John, I went over at about 10K and had a nice road in sight for all but a few minutes. As well as Placerville behind me and then Alpine Co. ahead. You are essentially going over a pass and, after a few minutes could glide to the Carson Valley floor. It's easier to see it than to explain. The rest of the trip is not a concern at all. It's almost the easiest way over the Sierras around here. I've gone over near Lee Vining and that's kinda scary. Going up 80 is good too but that was for points north. Tried to go over next to Mt. Whitney once but got to 17,900 and still couldn't top the clouds....turned around went south around the corner as usual.....had gotten a late start and learned not to do that again. I'm not comfortable without options so have found the safest routes I can and baby the hell out of my engine. :yesnod:
 
aviatingfool said:
Yes, John, I went over at about 10K and had a nice road in sight for all but a few minutes. As well as Placerville behind me and then Alpine Co. ahead. You are essentially going over a pass and, after a few minutes could glide to the Carson Valley floor. It's easier to see it than to explain. The rest of the trip is not a concern at all. It's almost the easiest way over the Sierras around here. I've gone over near Lee Vining and that's kinda scary. Going up 80 is good too but that was for points north. Tried to go over next to Mt. Whitney once but got to 17,900 and still couldn't top the clouds....turned around went south around the corner as usual.....had gotten a late start and learned not to do that again. I'm not comfortable without options so have found the safest routes I can and baby the hell out of my engine. :yesnod:
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I have crossed using 80 and also going up 50 and cutting over at the lake to Minden. I was pretty comfortable with both of those routes. I haven't been to Vegas, yet, but it is something I would like to try.
 
aviatingfool said:
Yes, John, I went over at about 10K and had a nice road in sight for all but a few minutes. As well as Placerville behind me and then Alpine Co. ahead. You are essentially going over a pass and, after a few minutes could glide to the Carson Valley floor. It's easier to see it than to explain. The rest of the trip is not a concern at all. It's almost the easiest way over the Sierras around here. I've gone over near Lee Vining and that's kinda scary. Going up 80 is good too but that was for points north. Tried to go over next to Mt. Whitney once but got to 17,900 and still couldn't top the clouds....turned around went south around the corner as usual.....had gotten a late start and learned not to do that again. I'm not comfortable without options so have found the safest routes I can and baby the hell out of my engine. :yesnod:
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Love the 218 kt shown in post#6...:thumbsup::thumbsup:

As for being able to baby the motor,, that same pic shows you running it at 2660 rpms... What's redline ?:dunno:
 
Pilawt said:
VIS also gives you the option of walking to a hotel if you decide to stay overnight.

Fox Field in Lancaster (WJF) also has convenient fuel and a decent diner on field.
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I think WJF would be a perfect stop it's the half way point.

Here's my rough flight plan Would it be better to plan on going around KLAS?
 
N801BH said:
Love the 218 kt shown in post#6...:thumbsup::thumbsup:

As for being able to baby the motor,, that same pic shows you running it at 2660 rpms... What's redline ?:dunno:
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Good catch Ben. 2700 Redline. That was just for effect....wanted to see what I could get with that tailwind. Have managed to get 2780 out of it at 3000' on a speed run to reach 180 kts. I usually cruise at 2400 to 2500 trying reasonable economy but still making 160+ kts. groundspeed. Could roll back to 2350, which is my static, and burn 6.5/hr. but I hate to see 150 something across the ground. :redface:
Have only ran it that hard a couple times in the last year and only for a few minutes. It's an old engine, lotta hours, no oil burn, good temps, knock on wood....:dunno:
 
aviatingfool said:
Good catch Ben. 2700 Redline. That was just for effect....wanted to see what I could get with that tailwind. Have managed to get 2780 out of it at 3000' on a speed run to reach 180 kts. I usually cruise at 2400 to 2500 trying reasonable economy but still making 160+ kts. groundspeed. Could roll back to 2350, which is my static, and burn 6.5/hr. but I hate to see 150 something across the ground. :redface:
Have only ran it that hard a couple times in the last year and only for a few minutes. It's an old engine, lotta hours, no oil burn, good temps, knock on wood....:dunno:
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What airplane? M20J?
 
cocolos said:
I think WJF would be a perfect stop it's the half way point.

Here's my rough flight plan Would it be better to plan on going around KLAS?
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WJF fuel: $5.89
Tehachapi: $5.54
Big Bear: $5.07, second cheapest in California....
:dunno:
 
Eastbound from Sacramento you have one great advantage and that is the ability to get up and across the Sierra real early in the morning. On the right day it's no problem at all. The easiest route is up Hwy 50 to Kyburz at which point you can pick either Carson or Luther Pass. Carson Pass is beautiful over Silver and Caples Lakes and Kirkwood ski resort but Luther is lower and will let you stick to the highway longer. Anything south of this route just gets higher, the only dip is at Mammoth which is a very spectacular crossing but comes with a bit higher pucker factor - although in winter there will be quite a number of frozen lakes that will make it seem not as bad.

Going south over the Tehachipi is always an option and isn't really that much further. Just do not stop at Barstow for gas, haven't checked recently but it's usually the highest by a good margin. You'll want to have fuel by that point though because after Barstow there's a leg of nothing until at least Jean.

But that leg across the Mojave is absolutely surreal, like another planet so whichever route you choose it's a neat ride.

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I'm planning going in may and thinking of leaving at 4pm or so. I think going south would be safest bet.
 
You're right, it is but I'd plan for both. Being in Sacramento you are so close to the mountains that you can gauge the situation at departure time. You could even start across, chicken out and still make the southern route.

With the right conditions crossing the Sierra is an extraordinary experience, you're gonna have to do it someday one way or another. In fact, since you have a few months take an exploratory flight up to Nyack/Blue Canyon. It's probably got snow on it now but it's a neat place with a bunch of amateur astronomy telescopes in their own miniature observatory domes. It is the quintessential "Cool place to fly"
 
Hmm good point. Also where would be a good place to stop for fuel if I take the route that's more direct?
 
What are you flying and what's your destination? It's an issue because if you need it Hawthorne is about your only option. It's a different world out there on the other side.
 
Ksac Ktvl bty kvgt more or less. Beautiful scenery and shorter than southern route.
 
Ianovic said:
Ksac Ktvl bty kvgt more or less. Beautiful scenery and shorter than southern route.
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I guess a good stop for gas would be tahoe. I would like to take get checked out for mountain flying before I took that route.
 
cocolos said:
I guess a good stop for gas would be tahoe. I would like to take get checked out for mountain flying before I took that route.
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If you go the more direct route, it should only be about three hours. That Cherokee hold five hours of gas, right?
 
John221us said:
If you go the more direct route, it should only be about three hours. That Cherokee hold five hours of gas, right?
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Yes, but not sure what my W&B is with the passengers I am taking(Still need to finalize who is going)
 
I don't imagine you'll need a fuel stop because you aren't going to take the mountain route if the winds are wonky. If, for some reason (doubtful) things changed enroute you could divert to Tonopah.

It's totally doable, not a big deal and you'll really enjoy it. Just look at the conditions and make your route decision at the time of departure.
 
cocolos said:
I guess a good stop for gas would be tahoe. I would like to take get checked out for mountain flying before I took that route.
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Gas is crazy expensive up there. 3 hrs and change, 35 gallons, no fuel stop needed. Chances are that until Tahoe you are flying up a canyon with the wind at your back. As long as the wind is not howling you should be fine.
 
Most of the airports on the eastern route are fairly high altitude, so you will need to check your take off performance, if you are at or near gross in that Cherokee. Bishop might be your best bet for a stop. Tahoe is only about a half an hour from SAC.
 
I crossed at Tahoe and flew down the east side of the Sierras in my Cherokee 180.
 
I am just saying, May can be warm. The OP is a new pilot and Cherokees are not known for their climb performance at high DA (even 180s), especially flying at gross. TVL has a long runway, but it is at 6,000 feet. BIH is at 4,100 and closer to the halfway mark. It might be a better choice.
 
John221us said:
I am just saying, May can be warm. The OP is a new pilot and Cherokees are not known for their climb performance at high DA (even 180s), especially flying at gross. TVL has a long runway, but it is at 6,000 feet. BIH is at 4,100 and closer to the halfway mark. It might be a better choice.
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His proposed flight is 2 months away... Weather will dictate if he can even go... Personally I would leave early in the morning.. not 4PM..
 
N801BH said:
His proposed flight is 2 months away... Weather will dictate if he can even go... Personally I would leave early in the morning.. not 4PM..
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Yes weather will be the go no go but I just wanted to know about the route. I plan on driving if weather is crap.
 
N801BH said:
His proposed flight is 2 months away... Weather will dictate if he can even go... Personally I would leave early in the morning.. not 4PM..
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Don't know how Ben knows our NorCal weather but he's sure right....! :yes:

I've flown my experimental all over the country and have always found early starts are best. If it's not good early - it's rarely better later for long trips. Sometimes - but rarely....:yesnod:
 
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Weather permitting I am planning on taking the sourthern route near lancaster just north of the gorman vor. Any tips in regards to winds and such? I was thinking no-go if winds near peaks above 25kts.
 
Ianovic said:
Gas is crazy expensive up there. 3 hrs and change, 35 gallons, no fuel stop needed. Chances are that until Tahoe you are flying up a canyon with the wind at your back. As long as the wind is not howling you should be fine.
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Crazy expensive at KTVL. Not so bad at KTRK. And there are several ~4000 foot airports not far to the east.

If you use the typical route from Sacramento to Truckee, you're following I-80, which is on a ridgetop over much of its distance.

It's not a difficult crossing, but it can get very turbulent on a summer afternoon. Performance at the airports needs to be checked, but it is not a problem unless you overload or it's stupid-hot. Even a 172 can handle KTVL on a 90 deg day loaded to max gross. Check your performance tables before you say it can't. The takeoff roll is very long, but so is the runway. You'll be at 50 feet by midfield, provided you fly the numbers and lean to max power at run-up.

Frankly, I don't think it will be that different than trying to cross Antelope Valley on a summer afternoon. That's going to shake your fillings off. It might be quite a bit cooler over Tahoe.
 
I got my PA28-180 up north of 15,000ft and was still climbing. You can probably pick any pass you want.
 
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