RV panels are terrible

tecprotb said:
Here is a screen shot of a RNAV approach into a nearby airport, I programmed this before leaving the ground . Once I left the pattern at my airport all I did was push buttons and work the throttle. It's amazing what they are doing with the experimental avionics, it will fly itself all the way to the runway. Yes I can tape my windows closed and watch TV, I don't have to use it, and a lot of the time I don't but it is nice having the ability to. It has also helped to teach me situation awareness and made instrument training more enjoyable. You can't go wrong with either of the two mentioned here plus a few not mentioned. Garmin is spending a lot of time in the experimental world and have dropped their prices to compete, so we are getting a lot of the same technology going into the high dollar panels for a fraction of the cost.
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What is a ballpark cost of this setup?
 
tecprotb said:
The two screen G3X with installation accessories, ADAHRS, XM and both antenna's (no engine monitoring) $7,800.00
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I like the 300, I think the hot ticket would be the 300 next to the GNS 750 as the MFD/radio.
 
I wish I could afford a glass panel upgrade, but for now this gets the job done just fine.

img57311.jpg
 
Tmpendergrass said:
Now I need to find a plane with a panel like that. Nice clean and professional looking. Good job.
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There are some, although most of the ones you find for sale have a Dynon/AFS/Garmin/GRT display or two instead of round instruments.

http://www.controller.com/listingsdetail/aircraft-for-sale/VANS-RV-7A/2010-VANS-RV-7A/1294127.htm
http://www.controller.com/listingsdetail/aircraft-for-sale/VANS-RV-7A/2005-VANS-RV-7A/1288593.htm
http://www.controller.com/listingsdetail/aircraft-for-sale/VANS-RV-6/1998-VANS-RV-6/1250719.htm
http://www.controller.com/listingsdetail/aircraft-for-sale/VANS-RV-4/1990-VANS-RV-4/1294449.htm
http://www.barnstormers.com/classified_827471_NEW+RV-7A+40+HR+EVERYTHING.html
http://www.barnstormers.com/classified_648031_RV-7A.html
http://www.barnstormers.com/classified_819093_2005+VANS+RV-9A.html
http://www.barnstormers.com/classified_809505_2009+VANS+RV-7A.html



There seem to be a lot more of these:
.watermarked_3d34525f6879411422f03bf4b2de0142.jpg

.watermarked_3535b5fdd764ca118e428e402bacfca7.jpg

.watermarked_450e260d19ea5deceefcd18547758980.jpg
 
Tmpendergrass said:
Now I need to find a plane with a panel like that. Nice clean and professional looking. Good job.
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I agree, N342TX is quite professional looking.

When I shopped for Sonexes, the situation was worse than in RVs, if anything. Lots and lots of builders used the passive reflecting MGI (IIRC) all-in-one blob.

Another thing, I'm not sold on Skyviews. I love the glass, but for some reason I prefer redundant small(er) glass. I would even prefer a dual Aspen over Skyview, even though Aspen is tiiiiny. The D180 seems about the right size to me and leaves good space for other things. The only Skyview installation I grudgingly accepted was in the new Maghani's Sky Arrow (it's a tandem seating airplane with a narrow panel -- a challenging project where Skyview worked to its strengths).
 
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Wouldn't mind a glass setup as long as it's well thought out and the builder didn't cut corners. I have to say after quite a bit of research my favorite is the g3x. I like the "portrait" layout, and the menu structure is similar to the g1000 skylanes and sky hawks that I am and will still be flying occasionally after my purchase.


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DaleB said:
There are some, although most of the ones you find for sale have a Dynon/AFS/Garmin/GRT display or two instead of round instruments.

http://www.controller.com/listingsdetail/aircraft-for-sale/VANS-RV-7A/2010-VANS-RV-7A/1294127.htm
http://www.controller.com/listingsdetail/aircraft-for-sale/VANS-RV-7A/2005-VANS-RV-7A/1288593.htm
http://www.controller.com/listingsdetail/aircraft-for-sale/VANS-RV-6/1998-VANS-RV-6/1250719.htm
http://www.controller.com/listingsdetail/aircraft-for-sale/VANS-RV-4/1990-VANS-RV-4/1294449.htm
http://www.barnstormers.com/classified_827471_NEW+RV-7A+40+HR+EVERYTHING.html
http://www.barnstormers.com/classified_648031_RV-7A.html
http://www.barnstormers.com/classified_819093_2005+VANS+RV-9A.html
http://www.barnstormers.com/classified_809505_2009+VANS+RV-7A.html



There seem to be a lot more of these:
.watermarked_3d34525f6879411422f03bf4b2de0142.jpg

.watermarked_3535b5fdd764ca118e428e402bacfca7.jpg

.watermarked_450e260d19ea5deceefcd18547758980.jpg
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All of those are quite nice. But their at or above the price of a nice super 2 ft. I prefer the look of the super 2 and I've heard *opinions* that a super 2 with extended wing tips is more stable for IFR than a -6 of -7 while still being aerobatic.

I love that I have a ton of options open but it makes it hard to decide :)

I'm hoping to fly both an RV and Glasair soon and see if there's one I prefer.



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Tmpendergrass said:
All of those are quite nice. But their at or above the price of a nice super 2 ft. I prefer the look of the super 2 and I've heard *opinions* that a super 2 with extended wing tips is more stable for IFR than a -6 of -7 while still being aerobatic.
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This one?

Or this one?

Either one is so completely different from an RV I can't imagine having to decide between an RV and either of them.

You must have meant this one. :) I looked at those too. As a builder, the choice was clear for me. Buying one already built, I'd say based on what I've heard you should try them both out for fit and suitability for your mission.
 
DaleB said:
This one?

Or this one?

Either one is so completely different from an RV I can't imagine having to decide between an RV and either of them.

You must have meant this one. :) I looked at those too. As a builder, the choice was clear for me. Buying one already built, I'd say based on what I've heard you should try them both out for fit and suitability for your mission.
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Glasair super 2 FT


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If I was gonna build it would be RV hands down. Since I'm not building I like the advantages of fiberglass( no stress memory, good looks, no corrosion).

Also I seems like RVs tend to sell for about what they cost to build(maybe a little more). On the Glasair side the builders tend sell them for a lot less than they put into them.

Overall I'm more drawn to the glasair but vans factory and community support seems much stronger.



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Dav8or said:
Thanks! I love my panel now. I wish I had the coin to ditch the 430 and go for a 650, I also wish I could find a cheap used Sandel 3500, but I blew my wad for a while. The only thing realistically on the horizon is the addition of an AoA indicator that will go on top of the glare shield.
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How'd you do the new annunciator panel for the gear up / gear down to the left of the gear handle? Is that self-built or an after market part? I love it!!!
 
zaitcev said:
I love the glass, but for some reason I prefer redundant small(er) glass.
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This.
I like glass as much as the next guy but there seems to be an alarming trend towards combining as much information as possible into a single display. And don't get me started on switch layouts.

Nauga,
and his scan plan
 
Tmpendergrass said:
Overall I'm more drawn to the glasair but vans factory and community support seems much stronger.
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The Glasair RG is more plane period.

I'd get a Skyview with 3 fall back analog instruments.

If you had the space I'd rock two skyview panels and a fall back analog (al la G1000 cessna layout style). I would want a cageable fall back analog AI though.

Also a big fan of having corresponding breakers mounted under corresponding switches.

Use fiberlite (google) for making panel/switch markings and fall back instrument lights.
 
ChitDisturber said:
The Glasair RG is more plane period.

I'd get a Skyview with 3 fall back analog instruments.

If you had the space I'd rock two skyview panels and a fall back analog (al la G1000 cessna layout style). I would want a cageable fall back analog AI though.

Also a big fan of having corresponding breakers mounted under corresponding switches.

Use fiberlite (google) for making panel/switch markings and fall back instrument lights.
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Quick question. Why analog over a dynon d1 or dual screens/adhrs?


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I'd like to be able to get through a no horizon situation with zero electrical, analog offers that.

Also id go with the remote mouted Xpdr and dynons slim radio for the skyview for space.
 
Thanks CHit. Makes sense that's one of the things I like about sky view is no need to have a gtx330 in the panel.


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ChitDisturber said:
I'd like to be able to get through a no horizon situation with zero electrical, analog offers that.
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As does independent battery backup for one or more EFIS, and you don't have to rebuild.replace failed vacuum pumps.

I guess you still wouldn't be covered for hard IFR after an EMP event, though. :rolleyes2:
 
TangoWhiskey said:
How'd you do the new annunciator panel for the gear up / gear down to the left of the gear handle? Is that self-built or an after market part? I love it!!!
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I had seen another Mooney panel that had a few of these lights and I just decided to group 6 of them together in a cluster. They are available from Spruce in a variety of colors.
 
Tmpendergrass said:
If I was gonna build it would be RV hands down. Since I'm not building I like the advantages of fiberglass( no stress memory, good looks, no corrosion).

Also I seems like RVs tend to sell for about what they cost to build(maybe a little more). On the Glasair side the builders tend sell them for a lot less than they put into them.

Overall I'm more drawn to the glasair but vans factory and community support seems much stronger.
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One thing in the Vans corner IMO, is it's much better survivability during an off field forced landing. Lower stall speeds and aluminum holds up better in an impact. I would totally go for the Glasair if it weren't for visions of tearing into a farmer's field in a fiberglass bath tub faster than most people drive on the freeway! :hairraise:
 
DaleB said:
As does independent battery backup for one or more EFIS, and you don't have to rebuild.replace failed vacuum pumps.

I guess you still wouldn't be covered for hard IFR after an EMP event, though. :rolleyes2:
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After working as a computer hardware instructor at a C3 during my flight training and now being a ATP, I like my analog fall backs :D
 
And that, my friend, is why you see so much variation in the panel instruments and layout in experimental aircraft. He who builds it gets to decide how it's built.
 
We have seen such an incredible leap forward in aviation panel techonolgy in the experimental world it is hard to even keep up. Add A-DSB in and out requirement in the coming years and you have a perfect storm for many looking for good panels, and many upgrading panels to the latest and greatest.

Like Henning said, cost is still an issue. A well designed glass panel is gonna set you back $20 - $50k plus labor to install.
 
I've priced out a G3X system on aircraft spruce. It looks like I could keep it around 15k plus whatever I can get a used 430 for. Can anyone give an idea of what install costs are?


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Geico266 said:
Like Henning said, cost is still an issue. A well designed glass panel is gonna set you back $20 - $50k plus labor to install.
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In a certified plane, you mean? I'd be hard pressed to spend $20K on a panel, unless I went with new GTN series certified GPS in addition to the EFIS and sensors and all. I've been looking at numerous solutions and am well under that number for dual screen EFIS, dual COM, certified GPS, intercom, Mode S transponder, engine monitoring and 2-axis autopilot. Figure another grand for assorted wiring and connectors, plumbing, etc. The totals are different with different vendors (Dynon, AFS, GRT, Garmin) but all are well under $20K - and that's with a used 430W in the mix.

I'm sure I could spend a lot more if I just told Stein Air to build me something and I'd send a blank check, but I think if you shop around a good panel can be done without spending a fortune.
 
zaitcev said:
Another thing, I'm not sold on Skyviews. I love the glass, but for some reason I prefer redundant small(er) glass. .
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So, you couldn't do a redundant Skyview, why?
A second 10" goes for $3600 and a 7" goes for $2700 (plus install).
They talk and vote against each other, or can go completely independent of each other. ....
(2nd ADHARS, for real redundancy is another $800)


And either/both can be configured as single, dual, triple screen presentations, with choices of what is displayed on the single or dual and what order to display them.
 
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That is exactly why I will never own a certified plane dale ;-)


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Geico266 said:
We have seen such an incredible leap forward in aviation panel techonolgy in the experimental world it is hard to even keep up. Add A-DSB in and out requirement in the coming years and you have a perfect storm for many looking for good panels, and many upgrading panels to the latest and greatest.

Like Henning said, cost is still an issue. A well designed glass panel is gonna set you back $20 - $50k plus labor to install.
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This is one of those things where you CAN spend as much as you want - but you'd be hard pressed to go more than $30k in an RV panel.

In my RV9A, I have dual 10" Dynon screens with ADAHRS, fully coupled 2-axis autopilot, 430W for IFR approaches, dual nav/comm, full EMS with fuel totalizer, synthetic vision and full moving map (including geo-referenced approach plates and airport diagrams on the screen), backup battery for the Dynons in case of electrical failure, 2020-mandated ADSB in/out, Arinc-429 interface for anything else I want to plug in, plus a backup MGL EFIS with it's own ADAHRS and GPS feed in case a common software issue takes out the Dynons.

That's about as serious as you could get for a full-glass panel - and I've got just under $28,000 total in the panel. Granted, I did all the wiring and install myself - but that's the beauty of experimental glass! :yes:
 
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For anyone worried about the D1's accuracy, I have one and it's flawless. Battery backup for 4 hrs in case of electrical failure. Plenty of time to get down and find VMC.
 
Let's see some pics air guy!!

Here's what I'm thinking;
1. Purchase a lightly equipped RV or glasair.

2. Fly it VFR for a couple years.

3. Spend 25k ish on full glass + top end interior.

4. Get my ifr ticket and fly an airplane more advanced than some airliners in the comfort of a full leather interior :)

5. Wave to the cirrus guys as I pass them at a fraction of their cost ;-)


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oldShar said:
So, you couldn't do a redundant Skyview, why?
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Come down to Mid-Valley on Saturday, I'll show you my panel... It might have room for a D10 :)

I saw a nice dual 10" install in a Diamond that USAF was selling for surplus because they decided to buy Cirruses instead
 
Tmpendergrass said:
I've priced out a G3X system on aircraft spruce. It looks like I could keep it around 15k plus whatever I can get a used 430 for. Can anyone give an idea of what install costs are?


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I went from this


To this


For under 15K....I did the panel cutout and removed as much as I felt comfortable then flew it to a nearby avionics shop and let them install the G3X.
Add another $2,500.00 for the GX pilot AP.
You can find 430 non Waas units for between 4-5 k and new 430 waas unit is around $8k.
I hope this helps
 
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tecprotb said:
I went from this


To this


For under 15K....I did the panel cutout and removed as much as I felt comfortable then flew it to a nearby avionics shop and let them install the G3X.
Add another $2,500.00 for the GX pilot AP.
You can find 430 non Waas units for between 4-5 k and new 430 waas unit is around $8k.
I hope this helps
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Carbon fiber panel, or is that a fancy paint job?
 
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