RV-10 Down, Three Survive

VFR at 9,500' then 7,500'. SMQ-LKP. The reported crash site is Big Burn Mtn(2,923') and is 4.5 nm NW of LKP(1,747').

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/N10FD/history/20130221/2135Z/KSMQ/KLKP

Wx 12.7 nm NW of LKP: KSLK 212251Z AUTO 20003KT 5SM BR OVC014 M12/M14 A3012 RMK AO2 SNB04E18 SLP241 P0000 T11221139 TSNO

Wx 31.4 nm NE of LKP: KPBG 212253Z AUTO 10003KT 8SM -SN BKN035 OVC044 M07/M09 A3020 RMK AO2 SLP233 P0000 T10721094


Glad everyone made it out okay.
 
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I call BS on the story. Everyone knows RV10's don't go down.
 
Cudos to the rescuers who didn't give up.

Nice to see survivability among the traits of the RV-10. That is a hell of a wreck and no serious injuries. :yes:
 
There is no way they could have survived.
No flight plan.
And NO parachute!
 
Dr. O said:
There is no way they could have survived.
No flight plan.
And NO parachute!
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And..................................







Wait for it......................................


















It was an Experimental...:yikes::eek::hairraise:
 
Witmo said:
And GPS is never wrong...;)
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I've run into the same situation. GPS coordinates are calculated is a couple different "languages" giving different numerical values. Surveyors using GPS don't use the same as airplanes. :no: I tried to use my hand held to find survey markers. No joy. :lol:
 
Dr. O said:
There is no way they could have survived.
No flight plan.
And NO parachute!
Click to expand...

I am really surprised at the lack of injuries, and the severity of the crash.

Here is the only post from the pilot so far.


Lat and Long given to the 911 operator 4 times was 100% accurate. They failed on the communication to the SAR team. I can't say enough for the fortitude of the SAR team that hiked in to help us.

We are very upset with the cover up of the errors in the dispatch system. We will foia the 911 calls to clarify the truth. We spent 10 hours in single digit temperatures, which was worse than the plane crash. While we greatly appreciate the efforts of everyone that helped us, we do not appreciate their misrepresentation of the facts.

My RV-10 took a beating, yet the cabin protected us incredibly well. I am not in a position to post the details of the crash, as there were many factors yet to reconcile. The plane performed flawlessly and was not a factor in this accident.

Best, Frank
 
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Geico266 said:
I've run into the same situation. GPS coordinates are calculated is a couple different "languages" giving different numerical values. Surveyors using GPS don't use the same as airplanes. :no: I tried to use my hand held to find survey markers. No joy. :lol:
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This is a huge mistake............... The market should demand all GPS read outs be of the same format...... When I have to convert the three different ones I use this conversion table...

http://www.earthpoint.us/Convert.aspx.


We can put a man on the moon, but CANNOT standardize a GPS protocol.:mad2:
 
I have witnessed this screw-up time and time again in SAR exercises and seen it narrowly avoided by Incident Commanders with enough experience to ask for clarification during real searches.

I hammer this in my Communications courses.

Lat/Long format is critical when passing them between people. DD MM SS, or DD MM.mm is the typical cock-up.

Knowing it's a common mistake I suggest folks slow down and quiz the sender about the exact format if there's any question.

It's the old, "If you don't have time to do it right, you definitely don't have time to fix it later." Especially with lives on the line.

The dispatch recording will tell the truth. In fact, if I can find it, this one sounds like it'd make for a good addition to my training collection.
 
Also he could have told them he was on approach for Rwy 32 and hit trees 4.5-5 nm NW of the airport. They could use this to cross reference gps coordinates. Almost every pilot has some app on their phone to tell them where they are in relation to a town or airport. Telling me you are 5 nm NW of the airport, I can get someone heading that direction while confirming exact coordinates.
 
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What a beautiful looking RV.

Glad to see no one got hurt but can't imagine the pain looking at your hard work in pieces.

What the heck happened?
 
Geico266 said:
SPOT. Don't leave home without it. :no:
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Agreed. There are so many low cost options now that you're foolish to fly cross country over sparsely populated areas without something. I now have a 406 ELT in the plane and carry a floating PLB in my flight bag. If this had been me, they would have known where I was within 3 feet or so.
 
jkgoblue said:
What a beautiful looking RV.

Glad to see no one got hurt but can't imagine the pain looking at your hard work in pieces.

What the heck happened?
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Here is a post on another site.

I got the cliff notes of the story from Frank this morning – I may not have this completely correct but here's the gist of what happened. What was most scary about hearing him tell this to me is I could see getting sucked in to the same kind of situation. Just like they always tell us, accidents are usually caused by what seems (at the time) like a a chain of minor events and if you can break the chain then it doesn't happen. If you don't break it, you look up just in time to hit the side of a mountain.

Frank told his friends he didn't want to land at night but he knew they were calling it close. He got two weather briefings via AOPA & Foreflight and also called FAA for an update on the way to the airport, he also called the airport for a first hand report – he said he was mostly thinking about ice. They got off on time but fought a 47 kt headwinds and so they got there later than planned (surprise 1) . He picked up an IFR clearance for the GPS approach. While shooting the approach he got a visual on the airport (when looking down, he said it looked like daylight down there) so he canceled (or got cleared for the visual I'm not sure I've got this part correct). He dropped down below the clouds and it was much darker than above (surprise 2), he clicked the airport lights and they wouldn't come on (turns out they have been having troubles with them but there were no notams) (surprise 3), at the same time one of his the big EFIS displays wouldn't dim (surprise 4). Frank said! he thought he spent maybe 20-30 seconds trying to rectify these problems rather than going missed. He did decide to go missed but hit the side of the mountain as he was executing and hitting buttons.

– in retrospect Frank said he should have gone missed with ANY problem but these other factors sucked him into thinking he could quickly fix them and land. In another friend's words "that's why they call it an "accident" rather than an "on purpose"".

Franks said it is a miracle to be alive, they hiked to the crash site today and he said it really hit him how lucky they were. A cut finger, a bruised face and frostbite is the worst of the physical injuries. He feels terrible about putting his friends in harms way and it's gonna take some time for him to forgive himself.
 
Pretty amazing they survived controlled flight into terrain. I'm not a statistition but my guess is the chances of that are pretty low.

Pilot error. Distracted due to several links "in the chain" of events that led up to the crash.

First and foremost fly the airplane. When all else fails, fly the airplane. :yes:
 
Not to be insensitive to the victims of the crash, but this is quite an endorsement of the durability of the RV10. The build of that plane certainly contributed to their survival. Do these planes, built to spec, without modifications, match the durability of certificated planes? Is there data?
 
KeithASanford said:
Not to be insensitive to the victims of the crash, but this is quite an endorsement of the durability of the RV10. The build of that plane certainly contributed to their survival. Do these planes, built to spec, without modifications, match the durability of certificated planes? Is there data?
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Ummm... I think you're giving the plane way too much credit here. There is nothing special about the way an RV-10 is designed or built. Pretty standard aluminum construction. I'm sure Vans would be the first to tell you that. I do believe it fared better than a composite plane would have though.

What really saved them was dumb luck. They happened to hit a stand of just the right kind of trees at just the right angle. Doesn't even sound like they saw the trees coming at all, so we can't give our "super hero" pilot any credit either. It's either down to luck, or divine intervention, take your pick.
 
I'm impressed because I've seen other planes (possibly composites) unrecognizable after a crash. The fuselage seems to be pretty much intact. Dumb luck, I guess, but aluminum seems to experience more "luck" than composite materials.

Dav8or said:
Ummm... I think you're giving the plane way too much credit here. There is nothing special about the way an RV-10 is designed or built. Pretty standard aluminum construction. I'm sure Vans would be the first to tell you that. I do believe it fared better than a composite plane would have though.

What really saved them was dumb luck. They happened to hit a stand of just the right kind of trees at just the right angle. Doesn't even sound like they saw the trees coming at all, so we can't give our "super hero" pilot any credit either. It's either down to luck, or divine intervention, take your pick.
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Kinda sounds like a contact approach gone wrong. In the daytime at a familiar airport it might be a safe option. I'm guessing here, but maybe he was not very instrument current and was a little too relieved to make contact with the ground and cancel his approach. At night or in low visibility, its taught that you should follow your glide slope (or VASI) ALL the way down. This way, you can avoid illusions like a black hole approach.

He canceled apparently without having the runway clearly in sight, and likely ducked below his glide slope to get below the clouds and maintain visual contact with the ground.


First and foremost fly the airplane. When all else fails, fly the airplane.
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This does no good if you fly it into a mountain
 
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KeithASanford said:
I'm impressed because I've seen other planes (possibly composites) unrecognizable after a crash. The fuselage seems to be pretty much intact. Dumb luck, I guess, but aluminum seems to experience more "luck" than composite materials.
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It is a trade off with composites. They fracture and shatter on impact. It is the thing that sours me a little on the Lancair Legacy. Speed and efficiency vs. safety.
 
dell30rb said:
Kinda sounds like a contact approach gone wrong. In the daytime at a familiar airport it might be a safe option. I'm guessing here, but maybe he was not very instrument current and was a little too relieved to make contact with the ground and cancel his approach. At night or in low visibility, its taught that you should follow your glide slope (or VASI) ALL the way down. This way, you can avoid illusions like a black hole approach.

He canceled apparently without having the runway clearly in sight, and likely ducked below his glide slope to get below the clouds and maintain visual contact with the ground.





This does no good if you fly it into a mountain
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Agreed on NOT hitting a mountain...... PAPI's on 14...

http://www.airnav.com/airport/KLKP


He clearly was below the glidepath.... Prob tried to sneak in under weather and the terrain got him... 4.5 miles out, I bet he was still faster the landing speed and slightly slower then cruise speed..... Those 3 guys need to buy some lottery tickets.
 
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