Rusty, with big dreams

Discussion in 'Pilot Training' started by Mark D, May 17, 2018.

  1. Mark D

    Mark D Filing Flight Plan

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2017
    Messages:
    16
    Location:
    Bothell, WA
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Crash812
    I found out well into marriage and kids that flying was my one true passion. I lived right near an airport for a few years, and got my SEL license in 2003 with 40.1 hours at the time of my exam. Flew for about a year, then had another kid and moved to a house we really could not afford, and stopped flying.
    I have a little over 60 hours.
    I am now 48 years old.
    I just signed up for a BFR and to get my medical next week and am jumping in with both feet purchasing an aircraft in the next month or so.
    My plan once I am current and proficient, is to fly the family regularly for lunch and dinner flights just for fun and to build some hours.
    I think I should get right in to getting my IFR endorsement to expand the use of my plane, and to just become a safer pilot.
    My goal is to get my commercial ticket, so I have a fairly long haul, but another 200 hours should be easily reachable in less than a year's time. I'll have my complex and high performance endorsements done in this time as well.
    Here is the big dreams part.
    I want to fly tourist flights in my "retirement" in about three years. Most operators require 2,500 hours to fly people. Most cargo operators require 1,000 hours as a minimum for hiring, which I realize would be a good step, in this "career" path.
    Besides becoming a CFI, how do I get from 250 hours to 1,000 quickly in order just to start flying cargo? I won't be quitting my day job during this time.
    Any other advice anyone can give? I'm going to finish my "working" phase of my life doing what I love!
     
  2. mscard88

    mscard88 Touchdown! Greaser!

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2015
    Messages:
    21,829
    Location:
    Alabama
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Mark
    Uh....

    Welcome.
     
  3. benyflyguy

    benyflyguy Pre-takeoff checklist

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2018
    Messages:
    309
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    benyflyguy
    I’m reminded of the phrase that should permenate all pilots....”fly the airplane” but instead of literally...think more figuratively.
    If you are purchasing a plane you can acrue hours as fast as your wallet will allow.

    I’d start enjoying flying again. As a pilot who got his license in late 90’s flew for a few years and took two decades off, I can tell you first hand cockpit management in many ways is a lot more complex with additional technology l!! The ifr tag will help expand your horizon, it is currently what I am working on and will open your ability to log a lot more hours.
    Good luck.
     
  4. JCranford

    JCranford Pattern Altitude

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2015
    Messages:
    2,146
    Location:
    North TX
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    JCranford
    While working full time? Ok
     
  5. WannFly

    WannFly En-Route

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2016
    Messages:
    3,063
    Location:
    KFAR
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    WannaFly
    Doable. I have 165 hrs since May of 2017, with fairly long avionics upgrade downtime, 10 weeks and haven’t flown in last 3 weeks. You won’t have a social life, not that I care about spending time in pubs etc. with family and full time job.... now that might be pushing it
     
  6. denverpilot

    denverpilot Ejection Handle Pulled

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2009
    Messages:
    48,652
    Location:
    Denver, CO
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    DenverPilot
    Jumper dumper.
    Glider towing.
    Aerial survey.
    Some limited places that’ll hire below 135 Minimums for First Officers.
    Ferrying aircraft.

    There ain’t much in the no-man’s-land between Commercial and 135 minimums. All of them pay virtually nothing.

    Plan on saving up a pile of cash and flying much of it in whatever you can get your hands on if you want to speed up the process and definitely don’t want to teach. Every pilot job board is full of postings for 135 minimums and higher.

    And don’t be shy about applying anyway. Some places are starting to get desperate but don’t want to advertise lower numbers of hours for fear of a flood of applicants.

    Network too. As you get back into flying make it clear you’re looking to change careers and talk to folks.

    But to answer your specific question: “Quickly” is pay and fly it yourself. Not cheap.
     
  7. denverpilot

    denverpilot Ejection Handle Pulled

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2009
    Messages:
    48,652
    Location:
    Denver, CO
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    DenverPilot
    200 hours is 4 hours a week. It’s doable. It just isn’t cheap. Assuming he can find something to rent for about $150, it’s $30,000.

    The ugly number is the 1250 or so between 250 and 1500. $187,500 if you paid for it all yourself at $150/hr.

    This is why most people teach. And a whole lot, of people who teach, shouldn’t. It’s also why many flight schools don’t pay CFIs reasonable wages and do the “probably illegal but who’s going to report it?” 1099 stuff.

    Why pay when everyone wants almost $200K in flight time paid for by someone else?

    It’s a strange business model.
     
  8. TK211X

    TK211X Pre-takeoff checklist

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2015
    Messages:
    281
    Location:
    Tampa
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Him
    60hrs. with about 10-13 years is no joke. I have no doubt someone will give you a BFR sign-off but I would grab some popcorn and watch a private pilot video course. Try to see if you can pass a practice written exam. If this burning desire manifested itself from something like a midlife crisis I think you might be prone to try to push yourself and prove yourself around others. Especially if you plan to buy an expensive aircraft that can carry four. Try to wait on taking the family out on trips that require a reservation of any sort until after you get your IFR ticket.

    You can very easily get setup, buy an expensive airplane, and postpone everything else. Please don't brush these warnings off and try to snake through. You will succeed, but you can very easily fall into a trap further down.

     
    Last edited: May 18, 2018
  9. frfly172

    frfly172 Touchdown! Greaser!

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2008
    Messages:
    12,237
    Location:
    mass fla
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    ron keating
    Welcome ,with enough money, anything is possible.
     
  10. JCranford

    JCranford Pattern Altitude

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2015
    Messages:
    2,146
    Location:
    North TX
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    JCranford
    Well, yeah, doable, but you might not have a wife and kids at the end of the year. :eek:
     
    WannFly likes this.
  11. bflynn

    bflynn En-Route

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2012
    Messages:
    4,046
    Location:
    Fuquay Varina, NC
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Brian Flynn
    Welcome back. Plan on being rusty, I flew for the first time in 2 months last weekend and it was pretty humbling. If I were coming back after 6 years, I would think of taking 10-15 hours to get back in the saddle. That said, go for it, but be realistic about what you can do.

    One of the things about owning your own plane and flying the heck out of it is that it will be cheaper per hour to fly. There's a significant fixed cost to have a plane, but if you're flying 100 hours a month, that fixed cost gets split across 100 hours and is nearly nothing.

    Pulling up my plane ownership spreadsheet, I estimate that 100 hours a month would cost about $87.27/hour or $8,727 per month. Reality check #1, do you have $9,000 to spend on flying every month?

    That hourly cost breaks down as:
    $47.88 / hour for fuel
    $10 for oil every 15 hours
    $15 hours set aside to replace the engine
    Another $15/hour set aside for maintenance
    about $9 of allocated fixed costs.

    At 200 hours, the cost is about $82/hour or $16,548/month.

    Note that of that cost, $30 of it is saving for future expenses. Given the amount of time you'll fly, things are going to break. Or just take that out because you fly so much every month. Just divert gas money instead of saving for maintenance.

    Second - 100 hours/month equates to about 25 hours a week. I know it's fun, but at 25 hours a week it will get old. Assuming you fly 8 hours a day on Sat and Sun, you still have to make up another 9 hours during the week. So reality check #2, are you ready to go at this pace? I didn't even talk about 50 hours a week of flying, that is like working a second full time job that does overtime.

    Reality check #2a would be the weather and maintenance downtime, which probably curtails your time. An IFR rating will help with weather, but summer thunderstorms ground everyone.

    The numbers will all get fudged a little. At some point you'll probably want to sell your ASEL plane for multi-engine. That raises the costs.

    The real goal to reach is 1500 hours and an ATP rating. Once you have that, you will be very desirable to a lot of places.

    Honestly, if I won the lottery, I'd probably do exactly what you're thinking about, except I'd quit my job. I'd have to play the lottery first, but...
     
  12. Mark D

    Mark D Filing Flight Plan

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2017
    Messages:
    16
    Location:
    Bothell, WA
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Crash812
    I knew someone would bring this up. I have been working my butt off to eventually do something like this at about this point in my life. I'm not a risk taker and know this is going to be very hard work to do right to minimize risks. The part about owning a plane is to get my IFR cert faster and cheaper and build hours. Taking the family up won't happen until I've gotten quite a few hours behind me and am safe and proficient, but only to local $200 hamburger airports.
    I've certainly never been about proving anything to anyone and never have cared about what anyone else thinks of me. Hell, I drove a 2001 Chrysler Sebring that the paint was falling off until two years ago, that my wife was embarrassed to be seen in and embarrassed for me. I could care less as it never once had a problem and was the most reliable car I've ever owned. My sixteen year old ended that car.
    Regardless, safety is my biggest concern for both myself and anyone I take up, so there will be no short cuts for me. I'm anticipating 10-15 hours of dual before i'll allow myself a sign off, and will likely use the time to also start my IFR training. Airplane purchase will be after that once I get more input on what kind. Current thoughts are an early Mooney(I grew up flying with my dad's friend in one, but no logged time), which are well within my price range, will be good for complex experience, and IFR training, which then can be used for longer outings.
     
    mscard88 likes this.
  13. Mark D

    Mark D Filing Flight Plan

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2017
    Messages:
    16
    Location:
    Bothell, WA
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Crash812
    I appreciate the break down. But I'm looking at a more realistic 200 hours in a YEAR. I have not won the lottery, but can muster enough cash flow for this venture.
     
  14. denverpilot

    denverpilot Ejection Handle Pulled

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2009
    Messages:
    48,652
    Location:
    Denver, CO
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    DenverPilot
    Hopefully you caught my point that 200 a year is do-able but you need to get to Part 135 minimums (generally) before flying can switch from avocation to vocation without doing the CFI. Generally.

    Many believe it’s the Commercial rating, but there’s little to do between the Commercial and 135 minimums that will replace any other “normal” paycheck.

    Just making sure you realize that. Places are begging for pilots with 135 minimums but no place is begging for pilots with a fresh Commercial. And this is the best hiring market anyone has seen in decades.
     
  15. luvflyin

    luvflyin Final Approach

    Joined:
    May 8, 2015
    Messages:
    5,000
    Location:
    Vancouver, WA
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Luvflyin
    Get big Piggy Bank. Fill. Fly a lot. Work, fly. Take a day off every now and then and do dinner and a movie.
     
  16. Sinistar

    Sinistar Line Up and Wait

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2016
    Messages:
    998
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Brad
    @Mark D - where abouts are you located...will give the crew here better insight regarding wx and costs?

    Also, are you positive you can get your 2nd and 1st class medicals?
     
  17. DanWilkins

    DanWilkins Pre-takeoff checklist

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2018
    Messages:
    203
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Dan
    Do you want to get paid to fly tourist flights? You can fly all the tourists you want as an EAA Young Eagles/Eagles pilot without all of those extra tickets...on your own dime.
     
  18. Mark D

    Mark D Filing Flight Plan

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2017
    Messages:
    16
    Location:
    Bothell, WA
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Crash812
    I'm going to fly out of S43, Snohomish, WA.
    I'm 99% sure I can get my 1st class and am scheduled to do that next week!
     
    Sinistar and Churnobyl like this.
  19. Rykymus

    Rykymus Line Up and Wait

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2014
    Messages:
    635
    Location:
    Fairview TX
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Rykymus
    I never factored engine rebuild or repairs into my hourly cost of operation. When I bought my plane, it had about 1300 on the engine. My plan was to run it out getting my PPL, IR, and plenty of experience, then sell it as a run out. (Which I just did, a tad over 500 hrs and 4 years later.) Even with the cost of miscellaneous repairs, regular maintenance (oil changes every 35 hrs), and hangar rental, I still came out a few dollars ahead had I rented all those hours. (And I doubt I would have flown as much, considering it was a 40 minute drive to the nearest airport with rental planes, vs the 15 min drive where I had my plane hangared.) I'm not even factoring in the additional rental minimums for overnight trips.

    My next plane will be a twin. Again, I won't be including engine overhaul in my monthly operating budget. Instead, I will buy a plane with enough hours left on the engines to get me to my next goal, and when the time comes, sell it for less and take the hit.