Runway Incursions, United 1448

[Tristar]

Professional pilots and controllers are noted for needing great skill in many areas including situational awareness. Training and experience obviously helps to hone these skills but what we can never forget is they are people too and no one is an exception to the possibility of a runway incursion.

United Flight 1448 was an example of this shown in my Aviation Safety class during a runway incursions discussion. I thought it was very interesting how so many issues played into one simple task of getting the aircraft to the ramp. Unfortunately, when weather, confusing directions (IMO), and potential safety hazards play into the situation, it can make simple tasks difficult. Pay close attention to where each aircraft is. Notice how flight 1448 didn't see the signs until it was too late and now had its nose sticking out on the runway. They made requests to taxi off. ATC instructed them to hold thier position on what she called an inactive runway. Yet, later, she cleared another aircraft onto that runway. ATC and flight 1448 were temporarily but hazardly confused. Without the other aircraft's refusal for take off, there could have been serious results. What would you have done? Also, don't forget how difficult it can be to give directions to someone who is lost and you have to do it "over the phone" without any visual references.


http://youtube.com/watch?v=cofPH1y9vuw

 

[Greebo]

Dups merged

 

[wbarnhill]

Professional pilots and controllers are noted for needing great skill in many areas including situational awareness. Training and experience obviously helps to hone these skills but what we can never forget is they are people too and no one is an exception to the possibility of a runway incursion.

United Flight 1448 was an example of this shown in my Aviation Safety class during a runway incursions discussion. I thought it was very interesting how so many issues played into one simple task of getting the aircraft to the ramp. Unfortunately, when weather, confusing directions (IMO), and potential safety hazards play into the situation, it can make simple tasks difficult. Pay close attention to where each aircraft is. Notice how flight 1448 didn't see the signs until it was too late and now had its nose sticking out on the runway. They made requests to taxi off. ATC instructed them to hold thier position on what she called an inactive runway. Yet, later, she cleared another aircraft onto that runway. ATC and flight 1448 were temporarily but hazardly confused. Without the other aircraft's refusal for take off, there could have been serious results. What would you have done? Also, don't forget how difficult it can be to give directions to someone who is lost and you have to do it "over the phone" without any visual references.


http://youtube.com/watch?v=cofPH1y9vuw

The UAL pilots kept switching between 23R and 23L as well as not understanding the instructions from ATC. ATC got far too easily flustered by this incident, and it seems the only cool heads were the ones on Flight 2998 who were determined to not have an incident even if it meant delaying the flight and exercising PIC privilege over the ATC commands.

Could've been much worse. My question is, since 1448 knew they were on an active runway and in danger, could the pilot of UAL 1448 simply stated that they were crossing to taxiway Kilo?

 

[Teller1900]

The UAL pilots kept switching between 23R and 23L as well as not understanding the instructions from ATC. ATC got far too easily flustered by this incident, and it seems the only cool heads were the ones on Flight 2998 who were determined to not have an incident even if it meant delaying the flight and exercising PIC privilege over the ATC commands.

Could've been much worse. My question is, since 1448 knew they were on an active runway and in danger, could the pilot of UAL 1448 simply stated that they were crossing to taxiway Kilo?

This is an amazing example of how things can go really wrong (and how disaster can be averted with some calm thinking (2998). 1448 probably could have crossed, but I'm betting they couldn't see whether or not they were going to hit something on Kilo, if they'd be able to clear completely, or if that would put their tail in the way of an unfortunate departure.