Rope break 100 feet glider

Discussion in 'Flight Following' started by PaulS, Sep 8, 2019.

  1. Mtns2Skies

    Mtns2Skies Super Moderator Management Council Member PoA Supporter

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    Let's keep it out of the spin-zone folks. We've had enough closed threads lately.
     
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  2. MuseChaser

    MuseChaser Line Up and Wait

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    Understood. Thanks for your patience with my thoughts, and I'm sorry if I crossed any boundaries.
     
  3. IK04

    IK04 Cleared for Takeoff

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    I don't think she went more than three seconds before deploying the spoilers and committing to the landing. Staying calm and getting the job done is a quality that will help her in future successes!
     
  4. weilke

    weilke Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    That plane&pilot article is just one notch above bottom of the page clickbait. "We couldn’t believe how she responded to the emergency and you won’t either."
    What did they expect ? That she would start to 'scream like a little girl' and plunge the glider into the ground ?

    She was fresh out of training. A rope break in glider training is about as surprising as a sudden engine failure during your multi ticket. She executed what she had trained for. A good video, minus the gushing.
     
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  5. Bill Jennings

    Bill Jennings Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    Also part of aerotow training for hang gliders. It was good to train, as I've experienced both weak link failures as well as premature release.
     
  6. Salty

    Salty En-Route PoA Supporter

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    Come on. She didn’t DO anything that impressive, but the way she handled herself was pretty impressive. It Wasn’t that exciting because the runoff area was clear of obstacles, but she immediately and properly executed without panic or second guessing. I strive to be that cool and collected when something goes wrong.
     
  7. jonvcaples

    jonvcaples Ejection Handle Pulled

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    Musechaser, you rock!!!!!!!!
     
  8. Rgbeard

    Rgbeard Cleared for Takeoff

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    Haven't we all?
     
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  9. Tarheelpilot

    Tarheelpilot En-Route

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    I pity woke individuals. To each their own ...

    Edit: To take it a little farther and most likely to far for people on this forum. When I first heard the term woke I did a little reading to find out what it means.

    Until it was brought up in this thread I had never really thought about it in relation to Aviation. Now that I am, I think being legitimately woke should disqualify someone for a first class medical.
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2019
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  10. Juliet Hotel

    Juliet Hotel Cleared for Takeoff PoA Supporter

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    I don't click on or read anything that has 'you won't believe...' or 'we couldn't believe...' in the title.
     
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  11. George Mohr

    George Mohr Line Up and Wait

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    Woke or sleep, she did a good job. And this entire thread would have ended with that if she wasn't an attractive female. Get it together, boys.
     
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  12. Zeldman

    Zeldman Touchdown! Greaser!

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    So, did she have to pay for the tow, or was it hook up another rope and let's get going.??
     
  13. Matthew

    Matthew Touchdown! Greaser!

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    It’s a flight in the logbook, so it counts as a tow. My old club had a per-tow charge, then another charge for each 500’ above 1000 AGL (or something similar, I forget the details), so she probably got charged the minimum.
     
  14. PaulS

    PaulS Final Approach

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    I'll give you attractive female, but come on. It was the first flight for her brother, who has autism, so she had that going on. Plus she barely flinched when the rope broke, she had just cleared 100 feet. She went right into save her ass mode, didn't take her over a second to lower the nose, then she popped in the speed brake and kicked it into a slip. She took the time, albeit a simple "ok", to calm her brother when he realized all was not well. Then she nailed the landing. Then after she stopped, she confidently tells us in not so many words, the she handled her business like the best of them. THEN, she took her brother up again later that day. I would be just as impressed if she were an ugly old guy like me.
     
  15. George Mohr

    George Mohr Line Up and Wait

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    We’re on the same side of this event! Sorry if I was less than clear.
     
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  16. weilke

    weilke Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    It's not an emergency in the first place. A rope break during glider tow operations, while abnormal, is not an emergency. It can turn into one if you dont react in the calm and focused way that this young woman did, but a tow rope break with landable terrain in front of you is not an emergency.

    Locally a glider pilot/passenger died when he experienced what functionally amounts to a rope break at 200ft. They ended up 80ft up in a tree and the passenger died from falling down from the tree.

    ERA11FA401

    https://app.ntsb.gov/pdfgenerator/R...tID=20110715X11650&AKey=1&RType=HTML&IType=FA

    So yes, if you dont react in a calm and focused way to an abnormal condition, you may end up with an emergency at your hands.
     
  17. Salty

    Salty En-Route PoA Supporter

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    I agree, but there's not always such a wonderful choice if your rope breaks at 100 feet. Where I fly, a break at 100 feet, I'd be able to make a 90 degree turn and land on a right angle runway, but at 175 feet I'd be landing in trees or tree stumps at best. It would certainly be an emergency.
     
  18. George Mohr

    George Mohr Line Up and Wait

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    Sorry, but a rope break at low altitude is an emergency by every definition of the word.
     
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  19. weilke

    weilke Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    That's what I said, right ?
     
  20. brcase

    brcase Pattern Altitude

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    On small correction. From the video it appeared the only decision she had to make was to follow the plan or not. She had already made the plan for a rope break below 200 feet and had it planned all they way through to the landing. The lesson there is, we should all be that prepared for when the unexpected happens. That way the only obvious course of action is "Follow the Plan!!!", little or no decision making required, because you have already done that.

    Brian
    CFIIG/ASEL
     
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  21. Bill Watson

    Bill Watson Pattern Altitude

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    Okay Brian CFIIG, you are right and I would guess a good instructor.

    At the training and local flying stage of the sport, ‘follow the plan’ is a good way to view one’s flights and the various things that might happen on a flight. Which, if everything is done correctly by the pilot, is limited to tow rope breaks above and below 200’; just ‘follow the plan’.

    I’d like to give her an extra point for following the plan to the letter; i.e. she appears to have even pulled the release right after the break in order to clear the rope since she has no idea where the break occurred or even if she had been released by the tow pilot. Anyone else catch that? She’s a YouTube star just because it looked so damn good on video. Just flawless

    But, I would submit that there isn’t necessarily a plan for when the truly unexpected happens; like a bird strike, or a middair, or a stuck ballast valve, or a broken wheel brake cable or an a-hole tow pilot/airport manager who decided to spread some toxic masculinity around by trying to scare the only flying female on the airport out of the sport by signaling her to release at hundreds of feet over unlandable territory for no explicable reason (yeah, I watched it and knew her).

    Sorry, I digressed a bit, but just wanted to make the point that there isn’t always a ‘plan’ for real world things happening in soaring or flying. It’s just too dynamic. But ‘following the plan’ is the way to start for sure.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro
     
  22. Hang 4

    Hang 4 Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Rope (weaklink) break at 5 feet with "gear up". Skip to 30 seconds if you don't want to watch me debate whether or not to launch in a light tail wind.

     
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  23. Matthew

    Matthew Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Great job on landing straight ahead instead of trying for that 180!

    Decisions based strictly on altitude do need a bit of common sense. The 200’ = a 180 back to the rwy for a glider, for example. Depending on climb rates, rwy length, and winds, you might be at 200’ but too far away to get back onto the rwy. In that case, another field might be safer. Scoping out alternatives ahead of time is a good idea.
     
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  24. 3393RP

    3393RP Pattern Altitude

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    I noticed something else that I thought illustrated her cool head. Again, I'm not a glider pilot (except for the dacron and aluminum tubing type) so this observation may be incorrect.

    As soon as the glider touched down, she pushed the stick full forward and held it there with a confidence and authority that spoke of good training and singleness of purpose. I assume that input is meant to plant the aircraft, raise the tail to prevent unwanted ground contact, and transfer weight to the wheel for better controllability.

    It was a very simple thing, but I thought it was a great finishing move on a textbook example of "following the plan".
     
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  25. Salty

    Salty En-Route PoA Supporter

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    I’m not familiar with the one she was in, but one of the gliders I fly has a skid on the nose and the best way to stop quickly is to push that skid into the ground.
     
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  26. Juliet Hotel

    Juliet Hotel Cleared for Takeoff PoA Supporter

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    That looks like an SGS. They have a single wheel that sits slightly behind the rear seat. As I recall if you get on the hand brake hard, it's going to want to put the nose on the ground like that.
     
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  27. George Mohr

    George Mohr Line Up and Wait

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    Yup, looks like a 2-33. And yeah, nose skid.
     
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  28. Bill Watson

    Bill Watson Pattern Altitude

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    Given the video, it’s a bit unknowable but what I see is her doing a normal flair to touch down, then as soon as she touches, her left arm pulls on the spoilers to apply the wheel break which causes the the nose starts down, which it does quite quickly in the 2–33, she let go of the back pressure and yes, pushes the stick forward to get maximum braking with the skid.

    Hope she landed on the airport side of the road. NO ONE wants to disassemble a 2-33 unless beer is served.

    After my 10th watching, she’s still a freak’n star. Just text book with video captured cool.

    And just think what she had to go through... like having every man-child on the ramp trying to help with the belts on first flights, “thank you for your help, thank you as well”, etc.


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  29. CharlieD3

    CharlieD3 Pre-takeoff checklist

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    When she becomes an airline pilot, they'll call her...


    Sulllll....try.. sultry... That's it, that's the ticket... Sultry.


    She did better'n I might have...
     
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2019
  30. PaulS

    PaulS Final Approach

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    Lol, ok that might have been a touch of toxic masculinity.
     
  31. PaulS

    PaulS Final Approach

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    Musechaser, somehow I missed this post before today, you have nothing to apologize for here, thanks for writing it, I really have nothing to add, other than you nailed it.


    As far as this young lady nailing it. I measured 3,000 feet from what I think is the fence she referred to and the road visible on after it on the google maps. I figure she was maybe going 60 mph when being towed (makes the math easier anyway.) She flew over the fence at 52 seconds left on the video and the rope broke at around 40 seconds left. So she traveled for 12 seconds at 60 mph so she used up about 1,000 feet of those 3,000 feet. Then she was on the ground about 25 seconds later, so I'm thinking she was looking at that road, thinking "I don't want to hit that because it will hurt" , hence the slip and the heavy braking.

    I'll do the rest of the math if someone knows what she slowed to for the approach, but I think she had a much shorter space to hit than people think.
     
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2019
  32. Greg Bockelman

    Greg Bockelman Administrator Management Council Member

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    Approach speed in a 2-22 is 55-60. I think it is similar in a 2-33. Touchdown would be in the 45-50 range.
     
  33. George Mohr

    George Mohr Line Up and Wait

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    Yeah, and that is MPH.
     
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  34. PaulS

    PaulS Final Approach

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    Lol, I used miles but wrote knots. I'll fix it above.
     
  35. Bill Watson

    Bill Watson Pattern Altitude

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    Was that a 2-22?


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  36. George Mohr

    George Mohr Line Up and Wait

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    Pretty sure 2-33.
     
  37. PaulS

    PaulS Final Approach

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    Ok, so 25 seconds at 50 mph, she would have covered another 1,800 feet, leaving about 200 feet to land in. Now this doesn't account for wind, which would increase the available distance and plus it's a swag, but I think the distance to get this done was considerably shorter than it seems. My theory anyway.

    Edit: 200 feet (no wind) to land before the road.
     
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2019
  38. Juliet Hotel

    Juliet Hotel Cleared for Takeoff PoA Supporter

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    200ft left to land in? :confused2: Looking at google satellite view it looks like acres of scrub off the end of the runway there.
     
  39. PaulS

    PaulS Final Approach

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    Before the road.
     
  40. Salty

    Salty En-Route PoA Supporter

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    Are you looking at the right airport?

    There's no road to be seen on the west side where she was heading.