Roof water runoff

N801BH

N801BH

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I moved this topic here to keep the other thread (
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All examinees of DPE...) from being pulled off topic.....

Here is my last post over there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TMetzinger
No, he's not.

In Colorado and other Western states Water is practically the same as currency, and they have very detailed rules about the ownership of water.

edit: I see I'm late to the party with this response. Move along, nothing to see here.

Yup.. Water out here is like liquid gold.... I am the watermaster for the Enterprise ditch. It is a small irrigation ditch that supplies 57 users, over 1200 acres and on an average season, which is 4 months long, I run about 110 million gallons through it. I have seen human beings act totally irrational over water.... BUT..............

To regulate rain water running off someones roof is beyond obscene... :eek:.

I mean after all, the homeowner pays taxes based on structure square footage, that dwelling is covered by a roof, which is impervious so all the water runs off and into the ground. If if runs off the roof then all is legal, but if you install gutters and downspouts and catch some it turns into a crime.:mad::mad:... By catching some of it to water plants is criminal seems ridiculous as the water will end up on the ground or back into the atmosphere anyway . Call me seriously confused.:dunno::dunno::confused::confused:

__________________________________________________________


So... By a show of hands and comments, how many out there have laws that prevent you from converting roof runoff water to other uses ?:dunno:

Thanks in advance...
 
Last edited:
Man, that is seriously fugged up! People should be encouraged to stockpile runoff. It's not like you can grab enough to impact the flow into the ground.
 
Let me start by saying it's a stupid law. I am in no way for it. But in trying to figure out the justification for it, I came to this thought:

The reason for the law, is to try and keep the water table from diminishing. If you need to use it to water plants, it means the natural water falling is not enough. This means that the water that would have randomly fallen and not be consumed by plant life, is now being redirected to thirsty vegetation.

So the act of collecting the water, and feeding your plants with it, will reduce the amount of water that makes it to the water table.

Not in any way for the law, but that's probably why they have it.
 
Where I live water routinely falls from the sky, so we really don't worry too much about who owns it. Sort of like worrying about who owns the air.
 
It doesn't have all that much to do with the water table. It has to do with who lives downstream that depends on the water that flows from upstream. There are a lot of Supreme Court cases where states have sued other states so they can get the water they feel they have a right to. Colorado (where my folks live and who have to deal with these rules) and other Western states are very protective of their water. And anyone who messes with someone elses water is normally putting themselves into a world of hurt. If you are fortunate to have a spring on your own property that hasn't already been claimed by someone else, you are sitting on a gold mine.
 
Matthew said:
It doesn't have all that much to do with the water table. It has to do with who lives downstream that depends on the water that flows from upstream. There are a lot of Supreme Court cases where states have sued other states so they can get the water they feel they have a right to. Colorado (where my folks live and who have to deal with these rules) and other Western states are very protective of their water. And anyone who messes with someone elses water is normally putting themselves into a world of hurt. If you are fortunate to have a spring on your own property that hasn't already been claimed by someone else, you are sitting on a gold mine.
Click to expand...

I lived in Albuquerque for 12 years, so I know all about fights for water rights. :)

However if you collect roof water, and don't let it seep into the ground, how is that going to make its way to a river? I think it's far more likely to end up in a water table (that then might make it to a river).
 
First off: Even Colorado, which is probably known as the most draconian in this regard, has some limited exceptions for small-scale residential harvesting in rural areas since 2009.

Secondly, the concept where it is not allowed is that you are stealing from the true owner downstream, especially in prior appropriation states. So the practice is illegal not because of some government we-know-better-than-you big brother mentality (though some states or local governments regulate potable methods and use for the purpose of public health), but because like theft, you are impacting your neighbors.

All that being said, Michigan allows it though I'm not sure in all areas that you are allowed to use for potable purposes. We are doing it for lawn and garden use.

Of course Alaska does too.
 
Here's what wiki says about the Colorado laws:

Colorado law

In the State of Colorado, USA, the installation of rainwater collection barrels is subject to the Constitution of the State of Colorado, state statutes and case law.[14] This is a consequence of the system of water rights in the state; the movement and holding of rainwater is inextricably linked with ownership of water rights and is enshrined in the constitution of the State of Colorado. The use of water in Colorado and other western states is governed by what is known as the prior appropriation doctrine. This system of water allocation controls who uses how much water, the types of uses allowed, and when those waters can be used. This is often referred to as the priority system or "first in time, first in right." Since all water arriving in Colorado has been allocated to "senior water right holders" since the 1850s, rainwater prevented from running downstream may not be available to its rightful owner. In 2009, legislation in Colorado was enacted that permits capture of rain water for residential use subject to strong limitations and conditions.[15] To be permitted, a residence may not be connected to a domestic water supply system serving more than 3 single-family dwellings. The permit must be purchased from the State Engineer's office and is subject to water usage restrictions.[16]

--

And there is this:
http://water.state.co.us/DWRIPub/Documents/DWR_RainwaterFlyer.pdf
 
I am not aware of any such regulations in California that restrict the use of rooftop runoff, BUT, large scale building and paving projects are subject to drainage calculations and mitigation from a flood control perspective, as they increase runoff due to reduced infiltration capacity. Rainwater collection and usage is considered a green practice by the LEED folks.

Hopefully someone with enough money will challenge that law.
 
i'm surprised that Colorado doesn't encourage collecting rainwater...that would mean less water for Kansas ;)
 
tonycondon said:
i'm surprised that Colorado doesn't encourage collecting rainwater...that would mean less water for Kansas ;)
Click to expand...

just on the east slope ... western slope folks send their waste water downhill to CA ...
 
In Oregon there are water laws but they have not extended to roof run off....yet. I live in what is called the "High Desert" which is actually the extreme northwestern part of the Great Basin. (the valley floor here is 3000ft msl) When we built this house we incorporated a grey water system that captures rain water and drainage from the sinks and showers and bath tubs and distributes it through seep lines in the lawn. Discharge from the dishwasher and toilets goes into the septic system.
 
Mafoo said:
So the act of collecting the water, and feeding your plants with it, will reduce the amount of water that makes it to the water table.
Click to expand...
Huh? If you water your plants it still goes into the ground. That's assuming we're not talking about house plants. I know the plants absorb some water through their root system but so do the grass and weeds near my drainspout.
 
steingar said:
Where I live water routinely falls from the sky, so we really don't worry too much about who owns it. Sort of like worrying about who owns the air.
Click to expand...

And in the summer it is a humid as hell, and in the winter you get snow that stays on the ground. Not to mention the p*ss poor visibiltiy.
 
N801BH said:
I moved this topic here to keep the other thread (
subscribed.gif
All examinees of DPE...) from being pulled off topic.....

Here is my last post over there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TMetzinger
No, he's not.

In Colorado and other Western states Water is practically the same as currency, and they have very detailed rules about the ownership of water.

edit: I see I'm late to the party with this response. Move along, nothing to see here.

Yup.. Water out here is like liquid gold.... I am the watermaster for the Enterprise ditch. It is a small irrigation ditch that supplies 57 users, over 1200 acres and on an average season, which is 4 months long, I run about 110 million gallons through it. I have seen human beings act totally irrational over water.... BUT..............

To regulate rain water running off someones roof is beyond obscene... :eek:.

I mean after all, the homeowner pays taxes based on structure square footage, that dwelling is covered by a roof, which is impervious so all the water runs off and into the ground. If if runs off the roof then all is legal, but if you install gutters and downspouts and catch some it turns into a crime.:mad::mad:... By catching some of it to water plants is criminal seems ridiculous as the water will end up on the ground or back into the atmosphere anyway . Call me seriously confused.:dunno::dunno::confused::confused:

__________________________________________________________


So... By a show of hands and comments, how many out there have laws that prevent you from converting roof runoff water to other uses ?:dunno:

Thanks in advance...
Click to expand...


This was the primary reason we didn't do the ranch in Colorado, all the water that falls belongs to the state, no capture without a license.
 
Mafoo said:
Let me start by saying it's a stupid law. I am in no way for it. But in trying to figure out the justification for it, I came to this thought:

The reason for the law, is to try and keep the water table from diminishing. If you need to use it to water plants, it means the natural water falling is not enough. This means that the water that would have randomly fallen and not be consumed by plant life, is now being redirected to thirsty vegetation.

So the act of collecting the water, and feeding your plants with it, will reduce the amount of water that makes it to the water table.

Not in any way for the law, but that's probably why they have it.
Click to expand...

Sorry, no such thing, it's because water has value and government sells the water.
 
Never realized this would become another thread. It was just an example of a bureaucracy that can't easily be enforced.

Tons of people have barrels here, you just don't want it sitting where a building inspector would see it. The more rural you are, the less likely they will.

It's common to see ads for land in the rural areas trying to sucker people in to buy it as an investment here though, that doesn't include any water rights.

Suckers buy it and then realize they can't build their dream home or do much of anything, without a well or sone other water source.

The heartbreakers are the ones that sell over and over to new generations of suckers who have a creek running through mountain property and think they've found their little slice of heaven... until they try to use water from the creek.

Murph, if you're reading this thread, have you been to any of the water district meetings, er... Battles, out in your county lately? Dad says they're incredibly out of control out there. He went to a combined county meeting and water board thing and was just amazed at the politics and behavior. Nutty. Your area is particularly problematic with all the growth and county speculators trying to sell all your water off to the big City. Entertainment galore. Maybe some gunfights at the OK Corral sooner or later.

Water will continue to be Denver's major limit to growth, forever.
 
In Florida the dept of natural resources pays people to come to your community and talk to you about putting in rain barrels and saving as much water as possible.
 
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